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[GypsyRoseLee]

 Just had an email from Prof Studd, and he says if I have Zoladex injections, then I should take Livial EVERY day (not just for 7 days per month).

That makes much more sense to me.

Does anyone know if there is any progesterone in Livial? I reacted badly to the combi tablets in Femoston, so worried I will be the same with the progesterone in Livial.

[Tempest]

That's good, GRL!

Livial is totally unlike any other HRT in that it is a type of steroid which has an action via the pituitary where Livial is then converted into estrogen, progesterone and testosterone like components (this is the easiest way to describe it without getting too technical)

Some ladies (very few I might add, from my research) can find a slightly depressive effect. But in the main I've read that many like it as it gives an overall feeling of balance and improved mood.

I guess the mantra would be 'suck it and see', if you are happy to take the plunge.

It may very well be just what you're looking for as I know you've been suffering terribly now for so long. xxxxxx

[peri]

That was me Tempest I tried tibolone (Livial) for 3 months and had to abandon it as I felt permanently sedated on it.  Unfortunately I do seem to be extremely sensitive to anything I take, it was a shame because in every other way it was perfect.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Tempest

I'm just scared to try Livial, every day, because if it mimics progesterone then will it just make me feel dreadful every day?

Then again, if I am just too sensitive to any fluctuations, the Zoladex should stop them - and the Livial should make me feel stable. Bit concerned that there isn't much oestrogen in it though?

[dazned]

As Tempest said it doesn't have the usual estrogen etc in it ,it a sort of steroid which when taken gets converted by your body into estrogen,progesterone and testosterone. Maybe if your own body is making it ,it might suit you better .

[Tempest]

I'm going to wrack Professor Lumsden's brains about this when I see her on 10th January, GRL! I'm still having major problems with HRT, when it should in theory be straightforward as I only need estrogen and the ever elusive testosterone.

I feel hellish mentally on estrogen only! I actually feel better mentally on nothing at all. I've had a meeting of some considerable duration today with my Psychiatrist (I've only been referred to him fairly recently) about this and my mood in general and he's been very knowledgeable and extremely helpful. I'm going to add a thread in private lives to see if any of my experiences and his input help any other ladies here.

I really think balance is key - there is a possibility that the Livial may give you the balance that you need and therefore because the prog. element is in balance with estrogen and testosterone, it might not cause you any problems. I actually think I may need the prog. as I'm always freaking out of my skin on estrogen! And I need a very, very steady dose of anything. This may very well be the case for you too GRL - it's fluctuations that are the killer too for me and of the methods I've used, I'm having by far the worst problems with patches. It could be because my dose is still too low, or it could be that I'm not absorbing well. I haven't had much luck with transdermals at all!I won't know until I see the Prof. in January. But if this is the case, then a pill taken at a regular time daily seems a much more stable option possibly!

I think the estrogen element is fairly low dose, but I'm not sure HOW low or if the dose can be increased to allow for this without having too much of an androgenic effect. I will have to seek out answers at my appointment, and
of course I'll share with all of the lovely ladies here!

I'm certainly willing to give this a try myself. I have to say, Peri - sedating would only be good in my case!

[MIS71MUM]

Hi GRL
Please try not to be scared of trying new things. Remember fear or being scared is just an emotion or feeling but doesn't actually mean anything.

In addition it will stop you from trying anything that may fully benefit you.

I was worried about the Mirena coil and have had it for 4 weeks now. Of course in my head, I wouldn't have lasted the day!

[Tempest]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2671819/

Here you go, GRL - everything you need to know about Livial right here.

[Dancinggirl]

GRL - I have responded to you on your other thread but I would like to add that I found Tibolone really improved my mood, energy and libido greatly.  My only problem with Livial (Tibolone) was the increase in my acne (I'm very prone to spots) - this side effect is probably due to the effect of the testosterone and I understand only a few women get this problem  - I was just unlucky.

Tempest's description is very good :Livial is totally unlike any other HRT in that it is a type of steroid which has an action via the pituitary where Livial is then converted into estrogen, progesterone and testosterone like components (this is the easiest way to describe it without getting too technical)

Studd is a specialist in this field and if you don't at least try what he suggests then you will never know whether it will help. You do need to go into any treatment with a positive attitude and I know you have had a tough time but I believe you should give this a go.  Dg x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thank you so much for that link, Tempest - I read every page, and it was very informative.

I saw my GP today, and he has agreed to give me Zoladex + Livial, so long as Prof Studd puts it in writing to him. So have emailed Prof Studd's secretary and she says he will be fine to do this next week.

Typically for me, I am now panicking that it might just make me feel even worse, but I know that's the anxiety talking.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Dazned

I feel hesitant about Livial, because it feels very unfamiliar. But like you say, I might tolerate it better if it makes my body convert it to oestrogen etc?

I guess Prof Studd must think it's the most effective one to try, else he wouldn't suggest it?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Wise words, Miss71Mum. How are you feeling on the Mirena now?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thank you DG. My GP has agreed to let me try these injections + Livial. He just needs the official go ahead from Prof Studd.

I feel a bit worried that Livial is touted as being a 'weak' HRT, though maybe that is all I'll need if my own hormones are stopped from fluctuating so severely?

[Frankie41]

Thanks everyone here for such useful and informative posts   I'm particularly interested, because as you know Gypsy Lee, I'm basically in the same boat as you.  I think the regime potentially sounds a good one.  Like you GL, I am very "intolerant" of progesterone (my own or supplements), but as I understand it - it's not that we can't tolerate any progesterone, it's just the amount - probably we only need a tiny bit to feel ok (more for uterine protection, but that's another story) but it is really hard with traditional HRT to get that right amount.  So I wonder whether tibolone might work better because it will be our own bodies converting the amount we need. 

I had also read that tibolone can be sedating, but apparently you can half the dose or adjust to address this?  The acne sounds like a pain.  But I reckon I'd take that to get more stability with mood!  I've got a friend also on HRT who uses spiranolactone (?) for acne and I think it's pretty safe.  Just a thought.   

[GypsyRoseLee]

I'm hoping I shouldn't have a problem with acne because I have been on quite a high dose of testim gel for 6 months, and it hasn't given me any spots yet.

Prof Studd told me that if you're severely intolerant to progesterone, then you are affected by not only the level of hormones, but also the slightest fluctuation.

I haven't used any Utrogestan since the start of September, and have felt great on just oestrogel UNTIL I get to mid cycle, then my mood crashes and I feel dreadful. So I can only conclude that it is still my own bloody progesterone that is poisoning me.

If Livial is sedating, then that is fine with me, if it gets rid of the awful anxiety too.