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[Annie0710]

I had no idea she was leaving otherwise I would've took her email 😢

I always get scared changing things with my hrt ..... it's like trying to work out the best time to possibly have a bad time and then I convince myself it's better the devil you know

I can't complain too much at the moment, have definitely been through a lot worse during this but been bloody better before all this .  One thing meno hasn't  stripped me of is my indecisiveness but then again meno can't take the libran out of Me can it !!!!!

X

[Tempest]

Oh no!!!! She's gone?!? I had no idea! Does anyone know why I wonder? I hope she's OK. I know she has a lot on with caring for her Dad. She always put a lot into the research, and had some really interesting and informative things to share.

I'm a Piscean. Yeah......says it all really, doesn't it?!?

[donnacrichton]

I didn't do well on high estrogen levels and only in 50 mcg estradot. I was OK on zoladex but my system still was still occasionally breaking through even on the 3 monthly one. I got anxiety bad when my estrogen would rise. I'm now on a nasal spray still have dodgy days but managing to cope a lot of the time. Managing back at work. X

[Annie0710]

Hi Donna

What is the nasal spray for ?

X

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thanks Donna. Did you find the Zoladex pretty much stopped your anxiety?

[Frankie41]

Hi Gypsy Lee,

My experience on the Lucrin (Zoladex equivalent) has been mixed - and to be frank, (ha!) I'm not sure I've found the optimal regime yet.  Like Donna, I feel as if my own cycles do "break through" sometimes anyway (I'm on a 3 weekly injection), but I would say the somatic symptoms of anxiety are much less.  Without it, I had horrendous bodily anxiety, a very tight chest (it felt like my lungs were in vices), stomach knots, headaches etc (I lost 3 kilos in 2 weeks) but on Lucrin, these symptoms are much abated.  However, I would say the trade-off for me personally, is more depression - not always, but certainly a few days a month.  It arises inexplicably - and gradually or even suddenly, disappears.    I'm interested in peoples' discussion of livial here.  I'm in NZ and not many women seem to be on it here - but I'm aware of a huge trial being conducted in Melbourne currently of Livial for perimenopausal depression - on the wire, I've heard results are mixed, but some women are getting excellent outcomes.  Full results will be published early 2017 I think. 

I really empathise with the cyclical nature of your symptoms Gypsy-Lee.  In my own experience, I can feel really almost normal for a couple of weeks and so plan events etc, only to be knocked flat when I "cycle" - and have to cancel out of things, or grit my teeth and get on with them with little pleasure.  I've heard in time these cycles diminish, but there's no real knowing when!  I wonder how livial would affect the fluctuation aspect of things?  Does anyone know?  I might start a conversation with my endo...

Good luck and Best wishes to you all 

[Frankie41]

Donna,

Just a quick question - when you said you felt as if your own cycle broke through on the Zoladex, did you ever test to see if this was reflected in your bloodwork?  ie. post ovulation, you would see expect to see a significant increase in progesterone.  My experiences seem to have been purely subjective - ie increased anxiety/depression post "cycling" but no detectable increase in serum progesterone.  Even more baffling!!

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Frankie

I am desperate to feel some stability. Our symptoms sound very similar. Generally I have been getting about 2.5 good weeks, when I feel fine and happy. I feel optimistic and outgoing. But then it all comes crashing down and I revert to feeling panicky, despairing and hopeless. It just feels horrible. I can't enjoy anything, and just like you say, grit my teeth through social events (when I'm normally very sociable).

And again, just as you say it can suddenly lift in a matter of minutes. I often go to bed feeling fine, only to wake up feeling anxious and very low. If it wasn't happening to me, I don't think I would believe someone's mood could change so dramatically in just a few moments. It's so emotionally punishing, I can't tell you (though I expect you already know?).

But, I have read that this very quick cycling between moods is typical of peri Menopause? Though sometimes I really worry I might suddenly have developed bi polar, although when I feel fine I just feel normally happy, not manic or hyper.

If having Zoladex just gave me a few days of low mood per month, like you, then I could settle for that. Especially if it was fairly predictable. It's this awful unpredictability that is so disheartening.

[donnacrichton]

So relieved I am not the only person who had their own hormones break through the zoladex. I would feel fine and then suddenly massive anxiety tears and burning skin all the symptoms when I had high estrogen. The nasal spray is called buserelin and it shuts down the piturity gland so I have no natural estrogen. This seems ok a lot of the time but I need to take it 4 times a day and if I am late of more than an hour it is he'll for about 2 weeks. I don't think there is anything I have tried I have felt good on but plodding along with the spray and 50mcg estradot. I can't tolerate any slight change inestrogen either as really sensitive to any change. I was terrified of shutting system down and now terrified they might withdraw it! Think I am a nightmare patient lol 😊

[GypsyRoseLee]

Do you prefer the nasal spray to the Zoladex injections, Donna? Do you find your mood is fairly okay now, and pretty stable?

I'm desperate to find some stability. Feel so flat and low today.

[Frankie41]

Hi Gypsy Lee

Hang in there and know you are not alone!  You are right, our profiles sound really similar.   Like you, I hate the unpredictability.   As I mentioned before, I'm going to start a conversation about tibolone with my endo when she gets back from holiday.  Maybe you could throw that into the mix and ask Prof Studd's advice on that versus Zoladex?  The other thing of course is to consider whether our delivery routes of estrogen are optimal for us.  As you know, they all have their pros and cons - and over on the Surgmeno website (where there is also lots of useful info) they quite often talk about different women feeling better on a daily dose (oral, gel, transbuccal) versus "trickle-dose" (Patch).    I gather while the gel can be great for some women, for others it doesn't deliver quite so well.   Maybe you could ask Prof Studd's advice on that - ie for women for whom the anxiety/depression aspects of perimeno are the most troublesome, do they sometimes do better on a different delivery route?   From what I can see though on this site, he is quite a fan of gel.    So maybe it's best to just ask him about tibolone versus Zoladex.     

I really hope things shift for you soon.  How far into peri are you?  I'm 2 years in (as far as I know!)

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Frankie

I did try patches last year, but was still very up and down on them.

Funnily enough, Prof Studd has just emailed me to say he made an error, and that if I had Zoladex, I should take Livial every day (he had said to just take it for 7 days per month).

I am just ridiculously sensitive to any fluctuations, so I don't think Livial on its own would help?

My peri started exactly 3 years ago. My PMS had steadily been getting worse, and lasting longer and longer for a year or so, before that. Then in December 2013 my PMS failed to lift when my period finished, and then I started getting insomnia + extreme anxiety. Then my periods suddenly got much, much lighter and only lasting 2-3 days.

[donnacrichton]

Our symptoms are very similar I started peri in 2011 and still massive fluctuations and I still feel I get break through symptoms as there is no other explanation.  Don't know if there is much difference between zoladex or nasal spray. I've tried gel and patches and still not cracked it. I try to grit through the bad days also easier said than done. Try not to mention anymore when feeling shit as everyone's sympathy a bit tired. Sometimes a 10 minute read on this site reminds you that you are not going mad 😊

[Dancinggirl]

GRL - Actually I think you should give Studd's suggestion a try.  Livial(Tibolone) can and often does give you all the benefits of a conventional HRT without many of the fluctuations and side effects that progesterones bring. When I tried Tibolone I felt really good - particularly mentally (I slept so well) - if it hadn't aggravated my acne so badly (I'm very prone to acne) I would have continued with it.  Tibolone works in a different way to other HRTs and gives a very consistent dose of all the hormones including testosterone - great for the libido, energy and a general ‘feel good' . 
DG x