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[GypsyRoseLee]

I emailed Prof Studd and explained how I was still getting really severe, cyclical anxiety/depression right after ovulation - and that it's lasting for longer and longer each month.

He replied, suggesting Zoladex monthly injections to totally shut down my ovaries + Livial for 7 days per month.

This would mean I wouldn't have ANY oestrogen in my system, at all. Surely that would make me feel very low and anxious all the time?

I'm very confused. Am I missing something, or does that sound like a bad idea?

[Annie0710]

Google livial (aka Tibolone)
I find it hard to explain but you'd be converting the livial to oestrogen , progesterone and testosterone

I can't say whether it's a good /bad thing

The adrenals will still produce a tiny bit I think

X

[Dancinggirl]

Lival (Tibolone) might be  good option for you but if taken for just 7 days per month that probably wouldn't do anything!!???
I find this reply very baffling.  You'll need to ask him to explain how this combination is going to help. DG x

[donnacrichton]

I had zoladex for 18 months and what should happen is you no longer get the fluctuations but need something as you go into a medicine induced menopause. I would get clarification and give it careful thought x

[GypsyRoseLee]

I have replied to Prof Studd, asking for clarification.

Donna, can I ask if the Zolodex injections helped? I seem to remember from your other posts that you also suffered terrible hormonal anxiety/depression, too?

[Frankie41]

Hi there

I have had exactly your experience and have been on Lucrin (in same family as Zoladex) to suppress my ovulatory cycle.  You are absolutely right in that Zoladex does wipe out your own (endogenous) production of estrogen (and progesterone/testosterone) but the idea is that you "add-back" hormones in a stable form, so whatever HRT regime you are currently on.  It sounds as if, like me, it is the fluctuations following ovulation that you are very sensitive to - and so Zoladex is designed to suppress these disabling fluctuations.     Overall, I am better on than off, Lucrin - I had a short period without Lucrin to see if I could do without but the time around ovulation almost toppled me (very bad anxiety/depression) so have had to go back on it.  To be honest, it's still not perfect - (I am on 150 transdermal oestrogen patch), I find I am functioning pretty well when I have low stress in my life, but when I get busy and have lots on (including positive events), I have the sense that my estrogen levels are readily depleted.  So the regime requires you to be pretty self-aware.   For some women, this regime can be great so it sounds like it could be worth a try.  Or the tibolone which I haven't yet tried - but might in due course!

Best of luck! 

[Tempest]

Goodness, GRL! Yes, Livial for just 7 days would barely be giving you anything! He needs to clarify!! I wonder if he's getting awfully rushed these days? I remember a while back when I consulted him by email that he sent me a prescription for Utrogestan when I had clearly told him that I had had a full hysterectomy and oopherectomy. 

Frankie, hi! Yes - as a lady in surgical menopause myself I can vouch that stress does indeed knock out your supply of estrogen (yes - even nice, exciting things too)! You're absolutely correct. You do indeed need to be 'on top of your game' when relying on add back hormones, as I'm just finding out nearly 20 months post surgery!

Annie - this may very well explain your added anxiety symptoms too when you do anything social. Even 'good' stress such as going to your works 'do' would put extra demands on you and you might have burned through your estrogen a bit faster than you normally would. I guess this is where the Estrogel is handy if you're a dab hand at adjusting accordingly (which I'm not)! I wonder if Livial has a bit of 'adjustment' built into its mechanism as it converts theoretically into the 3 hormones according to our needs (as I understand it)? I know it would still be limited by the dose, but I'm doing more and more research into this option..... it's about now I could do with some input from the lovely Menomale as she is very thorough with her research and I know she's been looking into the Livial too.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thank you Frankie, that's really helpful.

150mg patch is very high, but I do think that for hormonal anxiety/depression you need tonnes of oestrogen. I am using 4 pumps of oestrogel and I think my body could easily handle more.

Since starting the injections have you found the anxiety and depression have disappeared?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Tempest, yes I wondered if he'd got confused, or rushing? When I saw him for my consultation I had to repeat several times that I STILL had my own period, regardless of whether I took Utrogestan or not.

I think he doesn't listen carefully enough. I would love to hear what menomale has to say about Livial, too.

[Annie0710]

That sounds really logical Tempest !

I can't handle stress since meno.  Let me clarify I never liked stress but I was always SO laid back it think it aggravated my parents lol, these days the mere sniff of stress and I'm quickly thinking which way to turn and run

I think the testosterone is trying hard to help me as since I've been on it I look forward to events now but once I'm on the way I feel the stress/anxiety emerging

Livial has been reported on here to have really helped with lots of ladies anxiety

GRL, you need answers (and deserve) as to why only 7 days a month on livial .  It does seem just as it'll be getting into your system you'll be off it again until the next time plus you may risk the unsettling symptoms some women talk of (think I'm remembering correctly, a little more anxiety initially) each time you restart

I agree Tempest about Menomale, I'm missing her presence here

X

[Annie0710]

Thank you Frankie, that's really helpful.

150mg patch is very high, but I do think that for hormonal anxiety/depression you need tonnes of oestrogen. I am using 4 pumps of oestrogel and I think my body could easily handle more.

Since starting the injections have you found the anxiety and depression have disappeared?

GRL I don't fall into that category .  I tried 100mcg estradot and I was a jittery wreck ! I think 50mcg would suit me better but adding in T I need a good amount of O for balance

It appears livial just knows what balance to get at.  I hear many more success stories about it than bad reviews.  It still is my plan B if this regime stops working or I start to not feel I'm getting anywhere

X

[Tempest]

I've just replied to another ovary-less lady in another thread who ideally only needs 25mcg of E because she feels rotten on anything higher! I see this a lot over at Hystersisters too. I think the gel if only I could get my flamin' head around it (and no rash) would allow me to adjust better in times of extra stress but conversely I would be feared of pushing myself into excess as I feel even right now that a 50 Estradot is a bit much (but the Hystersisters ladies tell me this might settle). I'd be a basket case right now on a 100 patch too, Annie! And Livial = less anxiety? GIVE ME IT NOW!!!!!!!!

GRL, I think all that demonstrating of how to apply testosterone might be getting to the dear Prof! Maybe it's addling his poor brain..... I hope Mrs. Studd can keep up with him (I heard that he likes to demonstrate on his arm how much Testim to use, so if you imagine he might be doing this several times a week)......

[Annie0710]

 

Girl you have your sense of humour back !

I think sometimes when I write about Livial I am actually talking myself into trying it !

It's like describing a lovely roast dinner whilst eating a salad lol

X

[Tempest]

I definitely see a pattern emerging, Annie!

Well, I'm going to see how it goes until January and then I'm going to hit my Prof. with my thoughts about trying the Livial. We can hand hold if we try it together? Who knows, it could be roast beef and all the trimmings.......I haven't even got any flamin' croutons with my measly salad at the moment! 

I wish we could earburn Menomale - I think she'd be totally up to joining us (Brazilian pharmacy allowing)!

[Hurdity]

GRL, I think all that demonstrating of how to apply testosterone might be getting to the dear Prof! Maybe it's addling his poor brain..... I hope Mrs. Studd can keep up with him (I heard that he likes to demonstrate on his arm how much Testim to use, so if you imagine he might be doing this several times a week)......

 

Well that does sound very unorthodox - 7 days Livial per month 

Um I had a little look at Studd's website and he does not mention this on there - here is a relevant section:

There are now many studies showing that GnRH analogues remove the symptoms of PMS by suppressing ovulation and producing a medical menopause. An injection of Gonapeptyl, every month is ideal and 'add-back' HRT, will prevent vasomotor symptoms and bone demineralisation. The orthodox estrogen/progestogen preparations are useful but the PMS symptoms may recur with the cyclical progestogen. Livial seems to be an excellent alternative without bleeding or progestogenic side effects.

http://www.studd.co.uk/pms_various.php


Unless this is a very unorthodox new approach, it sounds like he is giving his usual prescription of Utrogestan for 7 days per month for progesterone intolerant women - whereas surely he should have been saying Livial every day?

I would be interested to hear the outcome....

Hurdity x