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[Amethyst]

Hi - thanks for the add.

I've just had to come off vagifem after 5 months because it was giving me appalling headaches.  I go back to see my GP in a few weeks, but I suspect this means oestrogen products are off the menu for me.  Fortunately my medical herbalist (who has been great at preparing tinctures that helped with hot flushes and night sweats) has recommended a product called Yes which is relatively new (it's organic).  I'm still waiting to see if it's going to work for me as it's very early days yet.  I was wondering about others experience with either this or other vaginal moisturisers, problems encountered along the way, how long it takes to work etc.

Grateful for any input!

[Dancinggirl]

Hi and welcome to MM Amethyst
Urogenital atrophy needs local oestrogen.  Vaginal moisturisers can alleviate discomfort and help to keep the vaginal area healthier but, to prevent long term problems, so for many of us local oestrogen is the only truly effective treatment. A combination of local oestrogen together with Yes or Sylk vaginal moisturisers is often the best way to keep the atrophy under control.
I'm very surprised that Vagifem gave you headaches as virtually no oestrogen is absorbed systemically, so I suspect there are other causes for the headaches.  Headaches are a common menopause symptom and are usually because of hormone fluctuations and/or lack of oestrogen. Some herbal remedies can also give nasty headaches I believe? The leaflet that comes with the local oestrogen treatments are the same as for systemic HRT so, in fact, not really relevant i.e. the side effect listed for local oestrogen do not really apply - the only side effect many of us get with the local oestrogen is a burning sensation due to the fillers in the cream.  If you look at the NICE guidelines on treating meno symptoms, it actually says that long term treatment of local oestrogen for atrophy is advisable or symptoms will return.
To answer your question - either Yes or Sylk are excellent moisturisers but they need to be used daily, however don't expect them to reduce or stop the atrophy - they will simply keep things a bit more comfortable.
 
When having sex, you need lots of extra lubrication. Do keep posting.  DG x

[dahliagirl]

Hi

The Yes moisturiser came top on a list of moisturisers that was posted here recently (a paper involving Nick Panay?) as it is the right pH and does not irritate by forcing moisture into the tissues.  Sylk is fine too.  I also use Multigyn actigel if I get thrush- like irritation which stings, but helps.  As Dancing girl says, they all make things feel better, but you need the oestrogen to make a difference to your tissues though.

All the topical oestrogen preparations contain a tiny amount of oestrogen.  It does get through (but only a very small amount) if you have bad atrophy and the membrane is thinning, but not once the tissues have responded and plumped up.  Have you done the 2 weeks of using it every day first?  This is essential.

I am a veteran of the Oestrogen Withdrawal Headache, and it is truly awful.  You usually get it if you have a sudden large drop of oestrogen, and it seems to be exacerbated or brought on by getting thirsty in the hours before. 

I got one recently, out of the blue, after drinking liquorice tea and taking a cranberry extract tablet, before bedtime which is when I take my hrt tablet which has made me wonder about the effects of both of these (but I am not going to find out - it hurts too much  )  It is probably worth taking a look at the other things you have been using too.

[Amethyst]

Thanks for your responses.  I'm afraid it looks very much as if the Vagifem is the cause of the headaches as they improved after about 5 days without the pessaries and two weeks later, they've gone completely. 

I was on them every day for two weeks before going on to them twice a week.  I'm going back to see my GP in just under 2 weeks now.  I've been reading the "tell us how you cope with vaginal dryness" thread and am interested to see that some people have mentioned a dosage of only 1 pessary per week after the initial 2 weeks to get the absorption rate up.  I'm wondering if this (along with the Yes) may be the way forward for me.

Thanks again. It's so nice to find that I'm not alone in this.

[Maryjane]

From someone who had/has dreadful vaginal atrophy nothing else works other than local oestrogen, the moisturisers " soothe" but nothing else , YES have recently added to there range a " vaginal moisturiser " which is different to there lubricant which I have just ordered and am waiting for the delivery.

I would bet the headaches are from the " menopause" and it was a coincidence.

[Maryjane]

Just read your post saying it's stopped since stopping , hope other things help as when / if Va takes hold it's truly awful.

[Dancinggirl]

Amethyst - I suspect you are peri meno??? SO your own hormones will be fluctuating and this will result in headaches coming and going - your hormones may be quite settled at the moment and this may be why you are not getting headaches. 
These hormonal fluctuations can also give the impression that remedies are working - do look at some of the controlled trials, done with all the various herbal remedies claiming to help meno symptoms, as very few show any real, if any, benefit.  Some remedies such as Black Cohash must be taken with great caution!!!!
I have spent a fortune on all sorts of alternative remedies with no success - I should have spent the money on a good holiday which would probably have done me more good.  There is some evidence that increasing phytoestrogens/Isoflavines in our diet can reduce some meno symptoms but this will vary from women to women. I take Red Clover which doesn't actually reduce my flushes but is supposed to be beneficial for bones and heart.
I am 60 and stopped HRT about 4 months ago and my headaches have got progressively worse due to the lack of oestrogen.
Oestrogen is thought of as the 'feel good' hormone so generally not associated with headaches' - it's usually the progesterone that causes headaches.
Did the Vagifem help with the dryness and discomfort around the vaginal area?
If you are just suffering from vaginal dryness then vaginal moisturisers can be helpful.
If you are getting UTI type symptoms or burning, itching and general discomfort then moisturisers probably won't be enough.
You could try 1 pessary per week but that is unlikely to give full benefit - Vagifem used to be 25mg (it's now 10mg) so many of us actually have to use it at least 3 times a week to get the benefits.  DG x

[Amethyst]

Hi Dancinggirl - I'm post-meno.  Last period Aug 2015.

The Vagifem was great - got rid of the dryness, the feeling that I constantly needed to pee - everything.

Finding the Yes is working for the dryness but that feeling of needing to pee is back (though only on 1 side weirdly - which, as I recall is exactly the same as when I went on the Vagifem).  I drink cranberry juice every day - but think I may need to up that to twice a day or more.  Last thing I want is a UTI as well.

Feeling really quite fed up.  As a gender - we are very badly designed!

[Dancinggirl]

Drinking fruit juices will make things worse - fruit juices have too much sugar that will make the urine acidic and cause burning.
Avoid caffeine, alcohol and juices, drink plenty of water and I would try to persevere with Vagifem or the UTI type symptoms and the need to pee will continue and possibly get worse. Acidic or strong urine makes one want to pee more as well. I have suffered with Urogenital atrophy since my early 40s as I had a premature menopause - I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy - thank goodness for local oestrogen. Local Oestrogen and vaginal moisturiser will help to prevent infections spreading to the urinary tract.
You may need more Vagifem not less!!!!!
I would look for other causes for your headaches. Try stopping all herbal remedies for a couple of weeks - now you are post meno you may be one of the lucky women whose flushes etc. have subsided or reduced already.  Unfortunately atrophy won't get better with time.  DG x

[Amethyst]

Hi Dancinggirl - so sorry you've had this for so long.  Mother Nature can be a cow can't she?

I thought cranberry juice was supposed to help prevent UTI's?

I came off the herbal remedies a week after I came off the vagifem.  So far the hot flushes and night sweats haven't made an appearance - but that could be just because it's freezing here in the UK!

*sigh* difficult to know what to do for the best as what works for one seems to cause huge problems for another.  Still, back to the GP week after next.  She said she wanted to see me after 2 weeks - but of course that proved impossible.

Thanks again.

[Maryjane]

No Cranberry is a myth , therebos a recent paper two weeks ago saying so done by a medical person.

D-mannose by NOW helps some ladies re UTI.

[Amethyst]

Thanks - I've checked that out.  May give it a go 

[Dancinggirl]

Amethyst - interesting to hear you stopped the herbals just after the Vagifem - I do wonder if it was the herbal remedies giving the headaches??? Remedies can be more powerful than people think so should be used with caution generally - I know you were seeing a herbalist so had good advice but I'm delighted to hear your meno symptoms have not returned - I think you may be one of the lucky ones.
I would certainly give Vagifem another go and add in some Yes and/or Sylk for added comfort and moisturisation.
DG x

[CLKD]

Cut out everything!  Don't bother with herbals as these may work initially for various conditions but once hormones take over, they may well over-rule any benefits.

Headaches can be caused when the body is dehydrated so make sure that you take on enough liquid - including in food stuffs.

Make sure that you use lube at least 4 times a day, particularly last thing at night when you can relax and lay flat.  It is important to keep the whole vagina moist, as high up as is possible.  If necessary use a tampon to place i.e. KY-Jelly internally.  Let us know how you get on with 'yes'.  Any experiences are important, good or otherwise!

You could try Ovestin1mg if symptoms become distressing.  For me it was like razor blades up there    .  Some find that they are affected by the fillers or outer packaging of medications …. not necessarily the active ingredient.