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[CLKD]

Haven't read all the response, however, can you drop off in front of the TV?  If so, have a blanket handy and sleep where your brain decides to!

[Ms Saucy]

Hi there.
Just a thought but avoid all caffeinated drinks and alcohol, hot chocolate is caffeined too.
I drink only green tea and water, sleep like a log xxx

[Peroxideblader]

Hi I have had decaf everything for over 15 years and I hate tea of any kind I'm afraid...and no I can't fall asleep that's the strange thing I am so so exhausted but I keep going and keeping busy and apart from a slight slump after tea I nevr feel sleepy...especially at night....my body feels tired as in I can't keep my eyes open and my body is heavy and wiped out by once in bed my brain comes alive....that's why I am not going on hrt this month as I am having real issues with my son very upsetting times with him and my own bad health so even if I was a sleeper I wouldn't be right now with so much worry on my mind....thanks for saying zopiclone is ok...I should stop it completely because the quarter i take is no good at all for getting to sleep just means SOME sleep..thank you everyone...lets just hope hrt does work Rome and my sleeping I really really hope so as its my last hope..😥

[soniad]

can I just ask people who have posted to tell me in peri stage what hrt helped them to sleep

I'm using estradot 37.5mcg patches and Utrogestan 100mg for 12 days.

Just a word of warning: When I started HRT it made my sleep worse initially. It took me at least 2 weeks to start to settle into it.

[Dana]

can I just ask people who have posted to tell me in peri stage what hrt helped them to sleep as I'll be going on femoston purely because I've been told it's the kinder progesterone..thank you 😊

My insomnia hit me literally overnight. I went from being a perfect sleeper, to not being able to sleep at all. I also never really had any peri symptoms, apart from irregular periods. I think somehow my hormone levels plummeted so quickly, literally overnight, that I pretty much bypassed peri and went straight to post.

I did have sleep issues for the next 4 years, but that's because I did become dependent on a sleeping tablet (diazepam), so be VERY careful about taking zopiclone at all, even if it's a small dose because it has the same effect on the body as a benzodiazepine (diazepam, valium, xanax, klonopin et), and addiction can be very fast, and it can be very hard to wean yourself off. It took me 2 years of weaning, plus another 2 years of healing before I began feel like my old self, and on and off insomnia was a major side effect of that weaning process.

During the initial period of insomnia I didn't realise it was the diazepam that was causing the real problem, so I tried a lot of different HRTs trying to find out what in the hell was wrong with me. It took me about 6 months to realise that the HRT was actually doing its job, but I was hamstrung by the side effects of the diazepam, so please be VERY careful. It's only really in the last 6-8 months that I can say that I am totally healed from a process that started back at the end of 2011.

The HRT routine that I have now settled on is Estradot 50 patches, plus 5mg Provera for 10-12 days every other month. That gives me a period every other month, which is okay for now, but I'm 57 so down the track I do want to try to find a period-free routine that I can live with.

[CLKD]

It is said that as we age we need less sleep anyway.  Someone who is over active won't drop off.  One needs sleep hygiene routine apparently. 

[Dana]

"Sleep hygiene" doesn't work when it's hormonal insomnia. It also depends on the older person as to how much sleep they get. My 99 year old aunt consistently gets at least 8-9 hours sleep a night - always has. Interestingly she has never taken HRT, or any sleeping medication, or had any meno symptoms. Go figure.....

[Hurdity]

Dana did you try increasing your physical exercise during the day (apart from in the evening before bed) so that you were physically tired - which should aid sleep? I'm not sure whether this works if you have severe insomnia though?

However I would recommend to anyone who has trouble sleeping at least to try taking more exercise - I do always find I sleep much better and more deeply when I am physically tired than just mentally tired or sleepy.

Hurdity x

[Ms Saucy]

Hi there.
Can we help in any way with the stress around your son.....may get slightly better rest then.
I have worked with children and youngsters since the 90's so have a lot of knowledge re things and services that may help you .
Ms Saucy xx

[Dana]

Dana did you try increasing your physical exercise during the day (apart from in the evening before bed) so that you were physically tired - which should aid sleep? I'm not sure whether this works if you have severe insomnia though?

However I would recommend to anyone who has trouble sleeping at least to try taking more exercise - I do always find I sleep much better and more deeply when I am physically tired than just mentally tired or sleepy.

Hurdity x

Yes, I tried everything. I have always exercised in the morning, and trust me it makes absolutely no difference when it is hormonal insomnia (just like all other "sleep hygiene" techniques). People who haven't experienced hormonal insomnia just don't understand what it is like. I described it to a friend once as being like having 20 cups of strong coffee right before going to bed. It is that "tired but wired" feeling that nothing will help, other than some kind of sleeping medication (or estrogen).

Hormonal insomnia is not a case of "mind over matter" which a lot of sleep hygiene techniques are designed for. People who have insomnia due to other reasons like anxiety, poor sleep patterns, lack of exercise, poor diet, etc may well benefit from sleep hygiene techniques, but when you are being affected by hormones it is a completely different matter. It is literally a physical barrier preventing you from sleeping. Only those who have experienced it will truly understand what it is like. It is a very real menopause symptom, just like all the other symptoms.

[Dana]

Hi I have had decaf everything for over 15 years and I hate tea of any kind I'm afraid...and no I can't fall asleep that's the strange thing I am so so exhausted but I keep going and keeping busy and apart from a slight slump after tea I nevr feel sleepy...especially at night....my body feels tired as in I can't keep my eyes open and my body is heavy and wiped out by once in bed my brain comes alive....that's why I am not going on hrt this month as I am having real issues with my son very upsetting times with him and my own bad health so even if I was a sleeper I wouldn't be right now with so much worry on my mind....thanks for saying zopiclone is ok...I should stop it completely because the quarter i take is no good at all for getting to sleep just means SOME sleep..thank you everyone...lets just hope hrt does work Rome and my sleeping I really really hope so as its my last hope..😥

I totally understand what you are experiencing. It's that "tired but wired" feeling that I know so well. I would often be nodding off in front of the TV, and I'd think "Great, I shouldn't have any problems going to sleep tonight", but as soon as I actually tried to go to sleep, my eyes would literally ping open, and that would be that.

I understand and sympathise with the other problems you have at the moment, but in all honesty you aren't doing yourself any favours by delaying the HRT, IMO. I know how well it works for me, so I hope it works as well for you. Even if something is worrying me or distracting me I still seem to be able to sleep, so I would hate to see you keep taking zopiclone any longer than you have already. It really isn't a good medication to be taking all the time. Once a week might be okay, but trust me when I say I know how easily dependency can happen with that stuff. None of those prescription sleeping medications are good medications for regular use, and in fact no doctor should be prescribing them for regular use. There are a lot of countries now cracking down on the over-prescription of benzos and z-drugs (like zopiclone).

[Dana]

Haven't read all the response, however, can you drop off in front of the TV?  If so, have a blanket handy and sleep where your brain decides to!

That might work for some, but for me it usually had a paradoxical effect. I might nod off in front of the TV, but it would be a very light sleep which I would wake up from after maybe 30 minutes or so. That little bit of sleep would give me a second wind, which would mean I had absolutely no chance of getting any more sleep that night. I could quite often have afternoon naps, but that also made the problem worse because it would make sleeping at night even harder. It really was a no-win situation, so I have great sympathy for Peroxide because I totally understand what she is going through.
 

[da66]

Oh god - huge sympathy peroxideblader.  I have had awful sleep trouble too but not as bad as yours. Things that have helped me (sometimes) have been the Paul McKenna I Can Make You Sleep DVD dn the Headspace app. And I got a prescription for sleeping herbs from a western medical herbalist - they cost about £30 for a month's supply and took 2/3 days to work. Good luck!

[flufferama]

Yes yes yes to Dana. Real insomnia is hell on earth. I can't even describe the desperation of being unable to sleep no matter what I did.

I was a martial arts instructor, used a gym three times a week, practised yoga and had completed the Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction programme, quit caffeine, was rattling with magnesium and B vitamins and valerian and lavender .... And simply could not sleep.

Peroxide, you may need a heavy duty med short term to restore some sleep, if nothing else is working.

[Peroxideblader]

Dana you really do understand what I'm going through I could cry...no one understands the stress and devastation it causes and trip out the old wives tales and nothing works when it's hormonal we know that...I only cling onto the 1/8th dose of zopiclone because I know for the first week I stop totally I can expect NO SLEEP AT ALL...and I don't think my body or mental state could take that right now...I'm only worried about the hrt with so many people saying it didn't help at all but I know I'll put weight on..I've got a lifelong eating disorder which is in remission but a lot of Weight gain and still no sleep I couldn't cope with...but honestly Dana i feel so relieved you know what I mean how bad this big problem is when doctors will not agree that it's anything to do with peri....as for strong meds the other lady mentioned..what can I try to get sleep or are they all going to be too addictive x