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[sap22]

Hi all, I just thought I'd post and do a kind of survey to see if anyone else is doing the continuous daily 100mg oral Utrogestan who has also experienced worsening bladder issues..?
 
I am on Estradot 50mcg, vagifem x 5, and the above progesterone. Since starting 4 months ago some of my old bladder symptoms have returned... worse urgency/surging feeling, irritation after voiding (resulting in vaginal pain), sometimes a feeling of not emptying bladder fully and discomfort when lying flat.

I have managed to get an appointment with the menopause specialist on Monday so am gathering some background information to put to her my suggestion to try decreasing the progesterone.  She's talking about testing for histamine intolerance and wants me to get a NHS urine culture (HA HA - useless), but currently my money is on the progesterone.  I did tell her I was diagnosed earlier in the year with a low level biofilm bacterial infection (via Broth culture) but was put on the daily Utrogestan to stop any bleeds as I did have problems with them. 

Basically I am looking into the progesterone/irritable bladder connection, and if there's enough evidence to suggest it's the progesterone, then I won't bother with more urine tests or histamine tests and just decrease the progesterone, or drop the systemic and just do vagifem.  Although I as diagnosed in May with VA, which is improving. xxx

[CLKD]

What treatment are you using for the vaginal atrophy?  This is a condition which needs localised treatment, sometimes every night ……. because as oestrogen levels drop the body apparently dries - ears, ears, nostrils, skin, vaginal - = thinning skin which can cause bladder irritation which mimics continual urine infections.  Which often aren't.  A urine sample has to be sent for analysis in a Lab. in case ABs are required, which often aren't.

What is a 'Broth culture' am I missing something ?

Ask for VA treatment!

[sap22]

What treatment are you using for the vaginal atrophy?  This is a condition which needs localised treatment, sometimes every night ……. because as oestrogen levels drop the body apparently dries - ears, ears, nostrils, skin, vaginal - = thinning skin which can cause bladder irritation which mimics continual urine infections.  Which often aren't.  A urine sample has to be sent for analysis in a Lab. in case ABs are required, which often aren't.

What is a 'Broth culture' am I missing something ?

Ask for VA treatment!

Yes, I do vagifem 5 per week for the VA.  Broth culture is another type of urine testing (not NHS)...also using Ovestin for outer bits. 

[Hurdity]

Hi sap22

Could it be due to the Vagifem rather than the utrogestan? I always experience bladder irritation after using vagifem so using it 5 x per week, although providing much needed local oestrogen to your tissues , may also be irritating them too? If you need a higher dose could you try using two at once twice a week? Alternatively there is the Estring which delivers approx 50 mcg per week (same as the old Vagifem 25 mcg 2 x per week).

I would be loath to reduce progesterone dose from 100 mg orally on a medium dose of oestrogen as so much of it is lost in digestion and through the liver.

The other alternative is to go back to a cyclical HRT regime ie only take utrogestan for part of the month and then you will have a withdrawal bleed.

Hurdity x

[sap22]

Hi sap22

Could it be due to the Vagifem rather than the utrogestan? I always experience bladder irritation after using vagifem so using it 5 x per week, although providing much needed local oestrogen to your tissues , may also be irritating them too? If you need a higher dose could you try using two at once twice a week? Alternatively there is the Estring which delivers approx 50 mcg per week (same as the old Vagifem 25 mcg 2 x per week).

I would be loath to reduce progesterone dose from 100 mg orally on a medium dose of oestrogen as so much of it is lost in digestion and through the liver.

The other alternative is to go back to a cyclical HRT regime ie only take utrogestan for part of the month and then you will have a withdrawal bleed.

Hurdity x

Hi Hurdity, thanks for your ideas...  it's difficult to know, but I read about progesterone irritating the bladder and I understand that Dr. Annie Evans who has been mentioned before (now retired), used to give patients with bladder issues 7 days of progesterone for this reason. Not keen on having a bleed, but I cant carry on like this.... I could certainly discuss the option of using more vagifem in one go... thanks for your input xxx

[CLKD]

Also you should be getting any tests on the NHS!  These 'broth' tests etc. are perhaps a way of making money, too tired to do any googling …….. and I probably wont' remember to do so by the morning  [another meno sign, tired brain  ]

Let us know how you get on!  All experiences welcome.

[dahliagirl]

I am taking femoston 2/10 (sequential) and find that I have bladder problems on the progestogen phase.  I am increasing my vagifem during this time and trying to remember to drink more water 

Usually, I need to go to the loo fast, do not make it to the loo quite on time, and get aches in the bladder area.  This also corresponds with increase in constipation, so I usually have to take movicol as well.  Maybe I ought to keep a diary to make sure.  I will also ask the nurse about urine tests when I have my next review.

The other symptoms I used to get (vaginal infections that weren't, sore patch to one side and itching in out areas) seem to be under control these days, although the sore patch sort of threatens to come back (this is an early warning for me).

[sap22]

I am taking femoston 2/10 (sequential) and find that I have bladder problems on the progestogen phase.  I am increasing my vagifem during this time and trying to remember to drink more water 

Usually, I need to go to the loo fast, do not make it to the loo quite on time, and get aches in the bladder area.  This also corresponds with increase in constipation, so I usually have to take movicol as well.  Maybe I ought to keep a diary to make sure.  I will also ask the nurse about urine tests when I have my next review.

The other symptoms I used to get (vaginal infections that weren't, sore patch to one side and itching in out areas) seem to be under control these days, although the sore patch sort of threatens to come back (this is an early warning for me).

Thanks to all who posted.  Interesting to hear Dahliagirl you also have bladder issues on the progesterone phase of the treatment.  Yes I find I have to keep water drinking or it quickly gets too concentrated. I used to get sore patches, but must say that the ovestin on the outer bits did help that. I was nervous at first, but tried a bit on and it was fine.

[Sunnydays]

sap22, not quite the same as you but I tried Utrogestan vaginally just the once for 10 days and I found it caused massive irritation - sorry to be graphic but I felt it dried everything out down below; the positive benefits I had got down there from the oestrogen seemed to be negated.

[Sammiejane]

sap22

hi not sure if you will get this post but i hope so !

firstly how are things now did you reduce progesterone / vagifem?

a little thought for you i take estrogen only and ovestin vaginal cream for VA which has been working great but last 4 weeks have had a return of bladder issues more dampness feeling of not emptying properly irritation after going feeling like i need to wee again heavy discharge and feeling ill there is no UTI and no infection ie thrush BV etc !
i've stopped the ovestin for couple weeks and dampness is way less urinating better  feeling of needing to go after just been is gone now this could all be coincidence but as i don't take progesterone it can't be that and as i believe progesterone relaxes things down there which in turn would cause more frequent urination and possibly contribute to UI issues !
on the other hand it may of been that i need to increase my dose from twice a week to three times but i've also been getting burning with it ! i did use vagifem but notice hair shedding which i thought was that as it started 5 weeks after taking it but i'm shedding loads still now so i think it's more hormone imbalance or estrogen itself ! i am looking at going on the pill as i had no issues with it and i'm only 40