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[Stellajane]

Just wondering what we all think about the plan to introduce more grammar schools?

In my own town we originally had four grammar schools - one girls only, one boys only, and two co-ed.  Currently we only have two remaining, the rest having become regular comp's. 

If one of the original ones was reinstated I can see huge benefits to that particular part of town in terms of house prices which are currently quite depressed as that particular school has gone from bad to worse over the years.  No-one wants to live in its catchment area if they have kids that age.

[CLKD]

It worked for years so re-instate them!  The thinking was that children should not be 'streamed', however, kids sort themselves out in the Playground and do the streaming themselves!  Anyone watching children playing knows that.

We did tests every week, leading up the 11+.  Those that passed went to Grammar School (co-ed) those that didn't went to Convent (horrid brown uniform  ) or the local Secondary Modern.  I took all 3 11+ levels  but know that I did better in the 'A' stream of Sec. than I ever would have done in the bottom at Grammar.  Also I dreaded the bus journey into town/back.

See, already there was anxiety brewing  . 

Uniform is essential.  It gives a sense of Pride in the School Ethic and enables Staff to keep an eye on kids when they are out and about 

Those that are 'good' enough go from Grammar School to Uni., or into Further Ed as we did to Uni..  Not as previous Governemtns have suggested, that every one should go …. some are better served by going into maintenance industries, i.e. plumping and electrics. 

[CLKD]

I even had an Interview at the Grammar School  .  I can't remember how I got there/back 

We had to go to Further Education in order to continue with a 'skill', Himself went to Uni from there …….. I supported us financially until he eventually became employed  .  I did swimming and music in Sec Mod., classes were small and there was 4 years B4 children went into the Factories, onto the Land or to Further Ed..

My sister did 'A' Levels I believe from the same system but I had married by then. 

[CLKD]

We moved up from each school together unless pupils passed the 11+.  I HATED being restricted in Class, I would play truant   

[Pennyfarthing]

I went to grammar school and am still in touch with loads of old friends from our year and we all have good memories. We all went our separate ways but in recent years with the now defunct Friends Reunited and more recently Facebook, we've had a huge reunion and some smaller meet ups.

Most of us came from quite poor backgrounds and lived in either tied cottages or council houses but we were quite bright and bookish.  There were only a handful of kids who had  parents with professional backgrounds. A couple of teachers, and maybe an accountant and there was one girl whose Dad was a GP.  We had loads of RAF kids though. 

Most of us did OK and have turned out pretty good but so have friends of mine who failed the 11+ and went to secondary modern school. In those days they were taught practical skills like cookery, needlework, metalwork, technical drawing, woodwork, horticulture but to a very high level.  Where would we be without plumbers, electricians, builders, hairdressers etc? 

For me, grammar school widened my circle of friends as I came from a 3 class village school, it gave me the chance to learn foreign languages and to meet teachers who had a genuine interest in us and many of whom came from very poor backgrounds too which made a big impression on us and gave us something to aspire to.

I think the selection was fair and right at that time and it didn't matter how rich you were or how well connected, if your kids didn't pass the 11+ then they couldn't attend.  There were a couple of kids in our village whose parents were well off and they chose to pay for their kids to go to private schools when they failed their 11+. 

It's great when we have a get together because we are all teenage kids again and any airs and graces are forgotten.  We all swap stories about the hard times we had .... Like a girl whose family were so hard up but she was a brilliant sportsperson and they kept a money jar on the sideboard hoping visitors would drop something in towards getting her to hockey tournaments as they didn't even have a car. She has just retired as a senior lecturer in sports studies at one of the major unis but she said because of that she has always looked out for kids who she felt were struggling financially and helped out where she could.

[Ju Ju]

I was expected to pass my 11+, but went into meltdown during the exam. I failed and no amount of appealing by my primary school made any difference. That was it for the next 5 years. I went to the local secondary modern. My education was 3rd rate, apart from domestic science and needle work and an excellent art department. Physics was a boy's subject and biology was a girl's subject. I was in the small minority of 5 who went on to 6th form to take A Levels very poorly prepared, but determined and motivated. I didn't even know how to make notes or write essays!

Selection to go to grammar schools should not hinge on a child's performance on one day. I would have done well in a comprehensive school. Secondary modern schools were very much Cinderella schools and I was shocked by the predjustice I experienced from some quarters when I went on to the 6th form in a grammar school. It was as if children attending secondary modern schools were lesser beings, less worthy.

There is a place for grammar schools, if they foster academic excellence, but not at the expense of excellence of other schools. Every child is worthy and important. The most important thing is that children leave school believing they 'can', that they are worthy and that there is more to life than paper qualications.

[walking the dog]

I went to a comprehensive school as 11 plus had been abandoned . It was a,school with a lovely ethos and caring teachers but  if Ofsted had existed it would have been in special measures, teaching standards were very poor.
I amongst many others was failed by that school , I left with 2 O  levels and a  few cses. In my thirties I went to college and did courses to get me into university where I obtained a 2:1 degree then a  masters degree.
I hate it and will argue with anyone who says if your clever you will succeed whichever school you go too, well not from my personal experience!
My husband went to grammar school and loved it

[Pennyfarthing]

I was expected to pass my 11+, but went into meltdown during the exam. I failed and no amount of appealing by my primary school made any difference. That was it for the next 5 years. I went to the local secondary modern. My education was 3rd rate, apart from domestic science and needle work and an excellent art department. Physics was a boy's subject and biology was a girl's subject. I was in the small minority of 5 who went on to 6th form to take A Levels very poorly prepared, but determined and motivated. I didn't even know how to make notes or write essays!

Selection to go to grammar schools should not hinge on a child's performance on one day. I would have done well in a comprehensive school. Secondary modern schools were very much Cinderella schools and I was shocked by the predjustice I experienced from some quarters when I went on to the 6th form in a grammar school. It was as if children attending secondary modern schools were lesser beings, less worthy.

There is a place for grammar schools, if they foster academic excellence, but not at the expense of excellence of other schools. Every child is worthy and important. The most important thing is that children leave school believing they 'can', that they are worthy and that there is more to life than paper qualications.

Don't forget though JuJu there was also the possibility of kids transferring to Grammar school from Sec Modern at around 13 or 14 if it was felt they would be better placed at GS.  We had several kids join our school like this .... I had a friend who could have come to GS at 14 but she chose to stay at SM because she was happy there and did well and went on to be a senior nurse.

[bramble]

We do not have the concept of grammar schools in Scotland. Everyone went to the academy after primary and were streamed into classes (A-E) depending on the results of the 11+. We only had one academy in our town and it was bolstered by pupils from the surrounding villages. Class sizes were large but the standard of teaching was excellent. Those going on to uni normally stayed for a 6th year and they had the option of Greek. Pupils could leave after the third year. It is still the same. I had an excellent education and left with 6 Highers, one of only 3 in the class that did so.  I never knew there was such a thing as private education (apart from Gordonstoun) until I came south to work!

[Katejo]

I went to school in Kent which still had the 11+ and still has it today. The head of my school made a really big thing of it so kids who didn't pass were made to feel like failures. I scraped through. I know that because my Dad was a teacher. He told me my result confidentially, slightly before the other kids heard. My parents did suggest to me that it might be better to go to the Secondary Modern and be top of the class rather than struggle at the grammar. I was indignant about that idea. I had passed and I was going to the grammar school.
It turned out fine. I definitely held my own in the class in all subjects and came top of my class in first year French. That meant that i could do German the next year. It turned out to be my best subject. I studied it at Uni and I still speak it fluently now.

[CLKD]

We were never made to feel that it was bad to pass or fail - it was as it was, we were raised knowing that some would go to Grammar School via the 11+ which we practised for weekly.  So exams were never a problem.  We knew that those that didn't go to Grammar would go to Sec Mod B4 going to the land, factory etc.. A few of us did other 'trades' and a few went to Uni. via Technical College.  We weren't pressed to go to Uni unless we were suitable. 

At least I had the opportunity to flourish ……… and keep my friends that I grew up with.

[Pennyfarthing]

We were never made to feel that it was bad to pass or fail - it was as it was, we were raised knowing that some would go to Grammar School via the 11+ which we practised for weekly.  So exams were never a problem.  We knew that those that didn't go to Grammar would go to Sec Mod B4 going to the land, factory etc.. A few of us did other 'trades' and a few went to Uni. via Technical College.  We weren't pressed to go to Uni unless we were suitable. 

At least I had the opportunity to flourish ……… and keep my friends that I grew up with.

I just remember the Head telling us we were going to take a test and from that it would be decided whether we went to GS or SM.  I can't remember caring much either way and there was certainly no pressure from school or home.  It was no big deal.  My older brother was at secondary modern so I kind of assumed I'd go there too.   Ours was a tiny village school and that year just two girls passed (me being one) and no boys. In fact most years it was either just one or two kids who passed. 

It was also usual .... In our county at least ..... To allow very bright kids to take their 11+ exam a year early.  I believe this was because their tiny schools could not stretch these kids enough.  My best friend was a full year younger than me at grammar school and had been bored stiff at primary school because she was way ahead of everybody else.  She certainly wasn't coached or pushed in any way because her dad worked on the land and had left school at 12 I believe and her Mum was a cleaner for a local landowner. She just turned out to be naturally bright.

[CLKD]

We knew from early on that we were doing exams with the aim of sitting the 11+.  The test I hated was mental arithmetic  ………… my mind would and still does, go blank where sums are concerned.

Then came the White Paper suggesting that kids shouldn't be sitting exams. ………. and most Counties dropped the 11+ in case kids got a complex, forgetting that in the Big Wide World, competition was rife!

A couple of kids disappeared after one Summer holiday and it was explained that they had sat the 13+ and moved to Grammar School.

[Ju Ju]

I was expected to pass my 11+, but went into meltdown during the exam. I failed and no amount of appealing by my primary school made any difference. That was it for the next 5 years. I went to the local secondary modern. My education was 3rd rate, apart from domestic science and needle work and an excellent art department. Physics was a boy's subject and biology was a girl's subject. I was in the small minority of 5 who went on to 6th form to take A Levels very poorly prepared, but determined and motivated. I didn't even know how to make notes or write essays!

Selection to go to grammar schools should not hinge on a child's performance on one day. I would have done well in a comprehensive school. Secondary modern schools were very much Cinderella schools and I was shocked by the predjustice I experienced from some quarters when I went on to the 6th form in a grammar school. It was as if children attending secondary modern schools were lesser beings, less worthy.

There is a place for grammar schools, if they foster academic excellence, but not at the expense of excellence of other schools. Every child is worthy and important. The most important thing is that children leave school believing they 'can', that they are worthy and that there is more to life than paper qualications.

Don't forget though JuJu there was also the possibility of kids transferring to Grammar school from Sec Modern at around 13 or 14 if it was felt they would be better placed at GS.  We had several kids join our school like this .... I had a friend who could have come to GS at 14 but she chose to stay at SM because she was happy there and did well and went on to be a senior nurse.

Really?

 Your friend was fortunate to have this choice. It was not offered during my time at school and in my county. I had to wait till age 16. I became a teacher despite my schooling. I became a teacher as I was determined to give a better school experience to my pupils. Failing the 11+ battered my self esteem, but that was as much the fault of my parents, because of their reaction.

[CLKD]

I think that pupils weren't told the options, Staff were aware of those that could be moved up appropriately and it simply happened.  In Primary School if kids didn't reach a certain grade they weren't accepted into Senior School, they had to stay back a year ………… they had to be able to read and write their name at least.  So those that couldn't remained in 'top class' for an extra year, those that were able, took 11+ and the decision was made on those results.

I remember the brown envelope arriving …………  .