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[endoftether]

Hi, I've been a member for a while but thought I'd post a new thread as haven't been here for ages.
I'm exhausted. I don't know how to deal with this any more. I cannot find a reason for continuing to cycle despite being post op and am currently successfully suppressed on Decapeptyl and Synarel but the meno symptoms are brutal. I hurt all over, I sweat constantly from everywhere and despite using special deodorant, I have to change top several times a day. My mood swings are horrendous and seem to be becoming worse. My partner and I are not coping with it at all. I'm worried I am pushing him away and he's going to snap (he never snaps but it feels like it's only a matter of time). I use oestrogen and testosterone and I still flush, cannot sleep, have night sweats and bone ache and generally feel terrible. I cannot increase my oestrogen as it brings back symptoms of PMDD (which are worse than meno). I am pushing through and am sure I am not depressed but just so tired of it all. I'm looking at counselling but how will it help physical symptoms? I cannot deal with this for the next number of years. I'm existing, not living. I need something to change but don't know what. I cannot go on the way I am. My GP will just send me back to my gynaecologist who wants me to try Venlafaxine but I don't want to due to having had reactions to ADs in the past. Any advice please? I am 39 and went into surgical meno at 35. Thanks.

[CLKD]

Might I suggest that you use an anti-perspirant rather than deodorant?  It does what it says on the tin ….. i.e. a deodorant 'deodorises' - gets rid of smell - whereas an anti-perspirant stops excessive sweating.

[endoftether]

My bad - it IS an antiperspirant deodorant I use.

[CLKD]

I alter what I use occasionally.  Sometimes the 'mixture' is altered so no longer works  .  Maybe buy a dedicated anti-perspirant so that you know exactly what you are using 

[Dancinggirl]

Hi endoftether - what type of oestrogen are you using and what dosage? It sounds to me as though you are possibly not absorbing the oestrogen properly???
Also - you don't mention your lifestyle, e.g. diet and exercise - I couldn't cope without good brisk walks everyday.

Have you had your thyroid function checked recently? - Low thyroid function can make you sweat a lot.

It could be worth trying an AD/SRRI alongside the Oestrogen - when I saw a gyane privately he did suggest that something like Citalopram can sometimes be very beneficial - however I do understand your reluctance to go down this route as finding an SRRI that suits can be trial and error.
Have you had some CBT or tried Mindful meditation  - I started Mindfulmess about 3 years ago and though you do have to be disciplined and practise a lot I am finding it really helps now I'm off HRT.  Dg x

[WiggyMaggy]

Have you tried Driclor anti-perspirant?

It's available on prescription if you are exempt from charges as it's quite a bit more expensive than regular AP's (about £5-£6, depending on where you shop)

[CLKD]

Why would it be on Prescription 

[endoftether]

Hi Dg,

I use a random mixture of a 37.5mcg patch of Estradot changing every 2 days and 1/2 a pump of oestrogel on the days in between - it used to work well and took me  a few years to get settled on it but you may be right about not absorbing properly. I struggle with CBT and mindfulness tbh - have tried both and not found them very useful. I walk every day and when I can I play badminton and cycle too. I try and keep fairly fit. My diet could probably be a bit better but it's not horrendous. Had my thyroid checked and all good. Thanks for your suggestions.

[Dancinggirl]

When you say you are post op - I assume you had a hyster? or didi you just have ovaries removed?  I am confused as to why you say you have a cycle? Why are you on Decapeptyl and Synarel?  It seems to me that you are simply very oestrogen deficient.

Maybe use just Oestrogel for a while and try 2 pumps per day to see if that is better - it is well worth trying this for 2-4 weeks as you may be surprised how, just that little bit more of a consistent dose, can help - sometimes the patches don't absorb well.

Have you tried Omega 3 on a daily basis - very good for low mood, joint aches etc.  Vitamin D is also vital  (symptoms of Vit D deficiency are fatigue and aching joints) and you need Magnesium alongside to absorb both Vitamin D and calcium - so have a look at your diet to see if you are getting enough of these things and perhaps supplement for a while to see if it makes a difference.

You are very young to be struggling in this way so I really feel for you.  Counselling may help and sometimes looking at your whole lifestyle - stress levels etc. can be helpful. I had counselling for about a year back in my late 30s - I had gone into premature meno - and I have to say it made me reassess many things for the better.

The weather has been particularly humid lately, so everyone is feeling particularly hot and sweaty right now.

Just one final thought - I know many swear by testosterone but I do wonder if this might contribute to low mood or feeling irritable?  Worth looking into this???  Maybe stop the Testosterone for 2-4 weeks to see if that helps?
Sorry we can't be more help - it is all trial and error I'm afraid and I do think you need to reassess everything to ge the balance back.  DG xxx

[CLKD]

You could look at the Daisy web-site too, details on the Forum somewhere. 

Also, keeping a food/mood/symptom diary can be useful.  When my anxiety is bad I note it on the calendar …….

[Mary G]

endoftether, the symptoms you describe sound like classic low oestrogen.  It is difficult to get the dose right and took me a very long time.

I had a dreadful problem with a dodgy themostat and endless sweating when I was taking Angeliq (oral HRT with only 1mg oestrogen) and even when I topped it up with a 50mcg oestrogen patch, it still wasn't enough and I was still sweating buckets endlessly even though I didn't really feel that hot.  I found it affected my core body temperature and although I didn't ever have night sweats or even feel particularly hot at night, I used to have panic attacks at night and feel as though I couldn't get enough air when I was lying in bed.  I then discovered my blood oestrogen levels were way too low so no wonder I was having problems.

Very soon after I started on 3 pumps of Oestrogel everyday and a small bead of testosterone, the problem went away, it was almost like a miracle and I felt completely normal again!  I have since dropped to 2 pumps everyday and didn't notice any difference so I have kept with that dose - it also means lighter periods but luckily that does not apply to you.

My advice would be to try 3 pumps of Oestrogel everyday to get a really good dose of oestrogen into your system and then you could drop down to 2 pumps and that may well be enough.  You might want to try splitting the gel dose by 12 hours to keep your oestrogen levels constant - oestrogen dips could be part of your problem.  If you find your PMDD flares up then you could immediately switch to 2 pumps of gel but it might be worth just trying 3 pumps because you might be surprised, it could work and you have nothing to lose by trying. 

I learnt a vital lesson from my experience and that is knowing the difference between normal, acceptable sweating and abnormal, profuse sweating and poor temperature control caused by low oestrogen. 

[Dawncam]

Hi Endoftether - I've wondered about using that username myself on many, many occasions. You've come to the right place - you'll get lots of brilliant advice and tips on here. I agree with DG and MaryG - your E seems to be low. The gel is great for tweaking and if you find any of your bad E side effects returning, as has been mentioned above, you can easily and quickly drop the dose.

You've really got nothing to lose and a lot to gain by nudging up the E a little.

If you're anxious about an increase perhaps run it past your GP/meno specialist first?

Good luck

Dxx

[WiggyMaggy]

Why would it be on Prescription 

Because excessive perspiration is a medical condition (hyperhidrosis)

[endoftether]

Thanks all. I have tried on many an occasion to increase my oestrogen but it immediately brings back the horrific PMDD symptoms so I cannot increase at all unfortunately. I had a TAH and BSO for PMDD so really keen not to bring back those symptoms. I take Calcium and Vit D, Omega 3, Magnesium and Menopace so think I cover all the vitamin bases although I've never had my levels checked so who knows if I am absorbing or not. Perhaps just using oestrogel at a low dose might be enough - I'll explore this option. Thanks.

[Dawncam]

Good luck, really hope it works.

Dxx