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Author Topic: Cortisol & Insomnia  (Read 5867 times)

elsie001

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Cortisol & Insomnia
« on: August 31, 2016, 10:27:47 AM »

I was flicking through an old magazine at work (on my teabreak of course!), when I came across an article on Menopause.  One contributor said that her worst meno symptom was insomnia.  She went to a few Docs who were useless, then got the diagnosis that she was producing too much cortisol, and that was causing her insomnia.  Annoyingly, there was nothing in the article about how she treated it!

Prior to peri-meno, the only other times I've suffered from this sort of insomnia was just after giving birth to my 3 kids.  Despite long, exhausting, sometimes complicated deliveries, I never slept a wink the night after they were born.  The insomnia carried on for quite some time, especially with my 2 girls as they were very light sleepers themselves! I'm guessing the stress of the deliveries possibly triggered the fight-or-flight cortisol production?

Such a shame the article didn't mention any treatments but I found it reasurring to find the probable cause of my very annoying insomnia.
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Taz2

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2016, 10:57:42 AM »

Interesting elsie - I just had to google of course  ;D  http://www.nutritionalmedicine.org.uk/page6.htm

Taz x
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Taz2

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2016, 11:02:31 AM »

 :rofl:
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elsie001

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2016, 11:04:34 AM »

Ha ha Taz - I googled it too & that was the first article I found! Good ol' Dr Google!

Interesting it talks about some people having high cortisol levels in the morning.  I've never actually suffered from that but know from reading this forum that many wake up suddenly suffering with anxiety.
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elsie001

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2016, 11:06:07 AM »

Sparkle, I'm the same as you. If I have to get up earlier the next day for whatever reason, I know for sure I won't sleep.
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2016, 11:06:18 AM »

I believe there is still much to learn about how various hormones and chemicals in our bodies work and actually change dramatically when we get to meno. The sleep problems for me have been the worst meno symptom.  How I wish there was something that would help me sleep that wasn't addictive or had bad side effects.
I did try Seratonin pills before bed but with little success - some swear by them.  So much is about our mental state - I now actively meditate if I lie awake at night - I can take myself into a calm and happy state - at least if I'm not sleeping I am resting well. DG x
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Taz2

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2016, 11:06:51 AM »

This might be a more informative one http://www.faim.org/adrenal-health-solutions-fatigue-and-insomnia  Explains the role of cortisol and why we are always "switched on" nowadays

I think that high levels are the way it's supposed to be in the morning gradually decreasing during the day? Not sure how it all works but I bet we would all feel better if we could wake naturally rather than the alarm suddenly dragging us back from the depths (where we've probably only just managed to get down to!) into being fully awake.

Taz x
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Janice68

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2016, 12:29:59 PM »

If you find that magical cure for insomnia sparkle pls let us know!!!! It is very interesting about the cortisol part I was told as we don't have the estrogen levels we once had! Are cortisol levels rises especially when stressed as we don't have the estrogen Like we used to help us or something like that. Like DG said alot to learn with various hormones and chemicals especially in meno in our bodies.
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Janice68

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2016, 07:01:40 PM »

If you find that magical cure for insomnia sparkle pls let us know!!

 ;D I wish Jan, wouldn't that be good, could make a fortune!!

S x

Absolutely!!!
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Tempest

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2016, 07:47:57 PM »

Cortisol is the devil's own work as far as I'm concerned!!! >:(

As we age, so cortisol levels rise.

My own research has been into the Cortisol Awakening Response. This is the phenomena which gives you that lovely shaking upon waking, followed by a protracted period of anxiety. Of all the symptoms I've experienced since the start of menopause, for me this is the most disturbing by far.

Another thing worth mentioning that I've researched is that increased estrogen levels (whether from increasing HRT dosage or due to the body's own fluctuations), cause a rise in norepinephrine. Put simply, this is adrenaline. Which is why perimenopause is a rollercoaster for anxiety particularly! You're basically in a 'surge, drop, surge, drop' situation.

Increasing HRT (estrogen) dosage can also cause this, and I believe this is why a lot of women have a tough time when they either start HRT or increase their dose due to increased anxiety and often abandon it before levels have a chance to stabilise.

This can be a double edged sword when trying to balance hormones during perimenopause if taking HRT, as you will get a surge of norepinephrine upon commencing treatment as well as 'surges' due to your own hormone fluctuations.

In postmenopause, when estrogen levels are very low anxiety can then raise its ugly head again and this is mainly caused by an increase in cortisol levels as well as increased demand on the adrenal glands as they are recruited into hormone production.

It's worth knowing this, because then your GP can't then shift the blame of your increased anxiety on to you and tell you it's all of your own doing!

Yes, relaxation can help along with mindfulness etc etc but knowledge is also power, and if you know a little about why this strangeness is happening it does help to make it very slightly less terrifying and reassures you that you're not going truly bonkers!
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elsie001

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2016, 08:04:44 PM »

Tempest, that's very interesting what you say about estrogen.

I've attempted estrogen gel twice & given up twice because I find it impossible to sleep after using it for a couple of days (1 squirt of gel rubbed into shins).  Really not sure if I should persevere in the hope that I eventually tolerate it or not?

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Tempest

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2016, 08:08:37 PM »

Just to add, if you must go down the route of psych. medication, your best bet is going to be drugs from the SNRI class, not SSRI's. Drugs in this class include Duloxetine, Amitriptyline and Venlafaxine amongst others.

SNRI's are Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors, and therefore have a specific effect on Norepinephrine which is then why they have a superior effect on treating anxiety symptoms.

Not for nothing, it's Venlafaxine which is also shown to have a superior effect on hot flushes as opposed to SSRI's.

I like to keep this info in my 'toolkit', just in case it's needed.

I tried SSRI's for anxiety during my menopause journey, and they were a disaster for me personally. If I need to go down this route again, I will definitely request treatment this time with a SNRI.

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Elizabethrose

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2016, 08:29:33 PM »

Ladies this is all very interesting, I really know nothing about these particular hormones.

Many years ago, at the start of peri, I started waking very suddenly in the night, usually at about 3. It was like I'd been woken by a loud noise, and I was wide awake and very alert. I didn't have palpitations, feel anxious or any other nasties, I was just suddenly awake, alert and it was therefore difficult to get back to sleep.

When night sweats hit, before the heat kicks in exactly the same thing happens. I wake suddenly, very awake, very alert and the heat then climbs through me. Is it adrenalin, which is what I always assumed, that causes this to happen, especially now with the night sweats? I rarely wake up sweating, I wake up just before it's about to happen.

I am inordinately lucky in that I have never experienced changes of mood or any mental changes as a symptom of PMT or peri etc. Though I have always been inordinately sensitive to hormone change and have plenty of physical symptoms. I'd quite like to know what causes this and haven't found adequate info online.

I am a migraineur and have found without a shadow of doubt that I have to sleep in a very dark room. If there is any light, if I wake it is then impossible for me to go back to sleep. That is with or without a migraine. I am a morning lark, up at first light, in bed early if possible. In winter I try to sneak up unseen before I'm discovered but am usually discovered half way up the stairs by my husband with that look on his face!! He's the opposite, a night owl. x




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zelda

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2016, 08:17:01 AM »

A very interesting thread. I was experiencing these symptoms upon waking with the inclusion of vivid nightmares when I came off HRT, since I went back on it Femeston Conti.... almost two months now these symptoms have reduced significantly and I am sleeping much better.

I also take Prozac for depression, I wonder should I be on Venalflaxine instead?
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Elizabethrose

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Re: Cortisol & Insomnia
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2016, 08:56:25 AM »

Thanks Menomale, I'll check it out.

Interesting that you're a night owl and also a migraineur. I haven't met one before and I was beginning to wonder whether migraineurs were generally morning larks as we are so super light sensitive. That's my theory shot down in flames! I found this link last night, I think my pineal gland is super sensitive! x

https://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-topics/melatonin-and-sleep
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