Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Liz]

In light of yesterday's reports, do you think Utrogestan used vaginally (rather than orally) is any less of a risk, as the progesterone element of a sequential HRT?  Would be interested to know any views as I've been taking it orally and it certainly makes me feel lousy.

[Michelle46]

Hi there. I take it orally and it makes me feel wired right up. How does it affect you?

[Liz]

Hi, it makes me feel depressed and lethargic after 2 nights use.  Was so fed up, I didn't take it last night and have felt much better today.

[dazned]

Used vaginally it usually gives rise to less side effects ,also the added bonus you dont have to worry about using it on an empty stomach 
As it goes directly to where its needed it also doesn't have to go through your whole system. I dont know of any evidence to support this as I dont think any studies have been done. However utrogeston is used for fertility treatment so might be safer .

[Mary G]

I find it works very well when used vaginally and it certainly has fewer side effects like breast pain and indigestion.  From what others on here have said, I think it works better at clearance/thinning when used in that way because you avoid losing a large percentage of it in your digestive system.  It seems logical to place it next to the cervix last thing at night so that it hits the spot and does what it is supposed to do.  I don't think there is anything to be gained by ingesting it and processing it via your liver unless you can't tolerate using it vaginally. 

[Liz]

Thanks all!  Can I ask a rather "delicate" question?  When inserting it, do you just pop it in?  I'm concerned I may not get it high enough, if you see what I mean......

[dazned]

Some use an applicator like the ones you get with say canaston. Mine came with an applicator but I think that was because I was perscribed 200mg utrogeston capsules not the 100 mgs

[Liz]

Ah right, thank you.  Perhaps I'll buy a Canesten pack then and use that applicator.

[Cassie]

You dont need an applicator just shove it in it will get to as high as its meant to....

[Hurdity]

Liz - I just poke it up - I've never been given applicators - and it has always worked for me.

re using progesterone vaginally - I posted some info about this on the recent progesterone intolerance thread here http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=526573;topic=32905.0;last_msg=526789:

Hi walking the dog

You have been given excellent information and advice already by Dancginggirl.

You may not be progesterone intolerant as such (ie were fine with their own prog) - but many women can't tolerate taking the high doses of oral progesterone needed to keep the lining thin. The reason it has to be at such high doses is that progesterone ( ie the bio-identical one) is very unstable and breaks down quickly in the body, and oral prog has much lower bio-availability than  when used vaginally. Also oral prog as it is digested and goes through the liver - has a greater number of what are known as metabolites (different compounds it breaks down to) some of which cause some of the troublesome side effects. (I've just been reminding myself of all this with a great scientific paper by Kuhl - if anyone wants the info I can post the details but is v technical and involving some unfamiliar biochemistry so somewhat hard going in places!).

Dancinggirl is right about the difficulty in determining how long prog stays in your system! From what I read actually it is eliminated quicker when taken orally but I need to read the paper again (which takes ages!). Also that progesterone like oestrogen acts at two levels - at the cell membranes so external to the cells - and probably responsible for some of the immediate effects as with oestrogen) and intracellular though the nucleus and synthesis of proteins etc. I imagine some of these take a bit longer to reverse.

All the progestogens vary in how long they take to be eliminated and some also differ whether they are taken orally or transdermally/vaginally, not only that there is variation amongst different women in this too so no wonder there cannot be a definitive answer!

I'm sorry I'm probably too late for your doctor's visit - but you don't actually have to take Utrogestan to thin the womb. You could take a short course of a synthetic progestogen every day - one that is more effective - such as norethisterone (which also can have side effects), or Provera as Dancinggirl says. Once your lining is thin you could then go back to Utrogestan for 12 days per month if you preferred.

When you say you were peri 6 years ago - what was your cycle doing and if you had skipped periods, how long had this been going on before you started HRT?

Hope this helps a bit

Hurdity x

I also bumped some info I previously quoted (abstracts of papers) recently on the oestrogel/utrogestan thread

In fact more progesterone is absorbed systemically when used vaginally than when taken orally. There are fewer side effects because oral progesterone is taken at very high doses because it is an unstable compound, and it is the metabolic breakdown products from this that causes most of the adverse side effects from oral progesterone (according to the paper I read by Kuhl). Yes dazned there have been studies - what specifically are you looking for info about? I've posted about some  - maybe not what you were asking though?

Also more importantly re the info yesterday - nothing was said specifically about progesterone as in progesterone. As far as I know there has not been any evidence that progesterone itself is associated with higher risk of breast cancer which has been described as probably breast friendly - there have been some studies but don't have them to hand.

Hurdity x

[Liz]

Thanks so much for your detailed reply, Hurdity.  I used the Utro orally last night (due to relations!).... but will see how I go this month and think about using it vaginally next month.

As for the news the other day, I think I just assumed it was the progesterone element of the HRT that they were referring to as more of a risk, because I think I read that they said it was women on the combined Oestrogen and Progesterone HRT that they thought were more at risk, rather than Oestrogen alone, iyswim.  Interesting to hear that Utrogestan has been called "breast friendly".

To be honest, this news has worried me (rightly or wrongly).  I actually thought about not using my HRT yesterday, but decided against stopping at the moment due to our holiday coming up (and the hot weather!).  You just don't know what to believe, do you? 

[Liz]

Hurdity, just read your link on the trial of vaginal v. oral route - very interesting so thank you!  Can I just clarify - I've been prescribed 200mg x 12 days per month, but if I used vaginally, the report seems to suggest that 100mg x 12 days would be sufficient.   (Currently on 1.5 pumps Oestrogel per day).  I was assuming I'd still have to use 2 x 100mg capsules per night, even if used vaginally, but perhaps 1 would be sufficient due to the higher absorption rates? (If I've understood this correctly, of course!)