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[Dancinggirl]

Thank you Menomale  - really interesting post. Biology is fascinating stuff - your post really highlights why the menopause is such a dramatic and tough time for many of us - hormone loss and hormone imbalance as we age must reek havoc with our bodies and naturally make us more vulnerable to getting cancer generally.  DG x
 

[Dorothy]

Thank you Hurdity and CLKD - I'm afraid I don't know how to start a thread about myself or the newbie section. Would you please direct me. Many thanks

Go to the section you want to put the new thread in (e.g. to introduce yourself, go to General Discussion and click on 'New Members') At the top of the list of topics there is a blue bar on the right hand side. Click where it says 'new topic', enter your topic title, type your message and post.

[Tempest]

Menomale, that is very thoughtful. Thank you! 

I really do believe totally in what you say that it is a very personal experience that needs to be lived. I have read so many varying experiences of women here in both how the menopause affects them, and their reactions to the HRT's they take (and the experiences of those who choose to take nothing or choose to quit taking HRT).

If we really are all the same, we should all be doing great on one type and dose of HRT (or nothing at all) but we are not.

I think this is something that we ALL need to remember when we beat ourselves up for maybe not doing as well as others on a certain regime, or in my case having a catastrophically bad time on one particular type of HRT. It can be so disheartening (if not downright distressing).

To cap it all, it would help greatly if medical professionals took off the blinkers  and started treating the individual, rather than the diagnosis. The onus seems to be on the patient to fit the treatment, instead of the treatment fitting the patient. We need a game change!

Of course what would be perfect would be the invention of an 'intelligent' form of HRT which could deliver the right amount of hormones on demand  according to the individual's needs. This would be the only way possible of ensuring a perfect fit (along with developing truly bioidentical hormones, but of course these would be variable due to the individual's genetic make up). We will doubtless not benefit from any such developments in our lifetimes, sadly.

[vickypk]

I know it's up to me if I use HRT or not, but I am concerned as I have had precancerous breast lumps, the last one was over 10 years ago I had removed in my mid 40s.  I did take advice from an HRT specialist privately and he said it was fine to go ahead with HRT.  I feel so much better since I have been on HRT for the past year, but think maybe I should stop, just don't want to go back to all those horrible symptoms again.  My mum had breast cancer, she never took HRT.  I feel like I am playing with fire!

[Ljp]

I too am debating coming off HRT after only 8 months on it, following this weeks press release. I use mirena coil and oestrogel, it has helped with hit flushes and anxiety is so much better, as are mood swings.
I originally had estriole cream as one of my worst symptoms has been overactive bladder, which was thought to be due to lack of oestrogen, however it has been really bothersome again recently and I have been on vesicare for my bladder for the past two weeks, and the difference it has made is great.

I am scared to stay on HRT for long, but I am equally scared the horrendous anxiety and mood swings might return if I come off it.
But then what's a hot flush or mood swing or even anxiety compared to potentially getting breast cancer?

What to do? What to do? Hate this crazy roller coaster I just need some stability

[wombat62]

Hi

Article in yesterday's paper online (DM) with expert opinions including Dr Currie about this, worth reading.

Usual comments from the public including those who say meditation and diet will cure symptoms...yeah right, for those lucky ones!

Although most did recognise that women these days are carrying a much greater load (kids, aged parents and having to work until nearly 70!) and they need something to help them do this whilst battling symptoms. Even if you don't have all that it's still debilitating!

[Dana]

I feel so angry that, once again, we have women considering giving up HRT simply because of a media report. This is deja vu of what happened before, not that I was personally involved in that WHI scare, but it has been publicly acknowledged by the International Menopause Society that a whole generation of women were forced to suffer because of a completely misguided study and media sensation.

Are we going to allow this to happen yet again!!! I say NO!!!!!

Don't bow to the media sensationalism or the guilt trips that are always put on women simply because we don't want to be martyrs and suffer through it. We've already had Dr Currie's take on this whole thing, so don't fall into the trap of making knee-jerk decisions.

Let's be honest with ourselves. Say you are 55 or 60 now and you are taking HRT and living a pretty normal life again. What would you prefer? To continue living that normal life and maybe, just maybe, have it shortened slightly due to cancer, which may not have been caused by HRT anyway. Or would you prefer to go without HRT totally, live until you're 95, but be suffering from hot flushes, insomnia, anxiety, depression, osteoporosis, and a whole host of other ailments, and eventually die after living a miserable 30 years. I know what I prefer.

If your symptoms aren't too bad and you don't want to take the perceived risk of HRT, then don't take it. However, if you had the kind of symptoms I had before HRT there is no way in hell you would be giving it up, even if my life is shortened by 10-20 years. We are all going to die eventually anyway. Does it really matter if it's when you're 70 or when you're 85? It's going to happen whether you like it or not.

I frankly don't care if I die at 70, as long as the remainder of my life is a happy and healthy one, and I know it won't be if I stop HRT. In fact I'll probably top myself without HRT anyway, so it won't be a long life anyway.

[Ljp]

Meno male said ". I'll be in constant watch mode to promptly address any change on my body/mind that could mean something is going wrong.  I'll keep in mind that there are side effects and that it takes a while as my body adjusts itself to the hormonal change'

That's how I am now, constantly checking my breasts, looking for change, feeling for lumps, it's crazy health anxiety, stirred by this bloody latest scare!
And any change, once it's there would be too late do anything to prevent it.

I feel damned if I stay on it, and damned if I come off it!… feel like screaming, it took me so long to feel ok about trying HRT, and when I first went on it, I bent the poor ears of dancin girl and Hurdity with my anxiety and worries, the NICE report made me feel more at ease, and the improvements from using HRT made me very emotional at first, a feeling of what I had been depriving myself of, a return to feeling a lot more ME!

And now this!! I could and do cry over the worry it has caused, when are we going to feel it's ok? When are we ever going to be given the full picture, not bits here and there, not one year one story, next year another? We are being used as Guinea pigs, no one seems to know, seems like it's a battle between oncologists and gynaecologists.

This roller coaster has to stop, my brain can't cope with all the complicated statistics and trial figures, informed choice my arse! (Sorry) I made an 'informed choice' so I thought, last year, now the information has changed, yet again!… just feeling so confused, and at the moment every time I rub in my oestrogel, or think of the progestogen from my mirena coil, I feel like a time bomb
😟😟😢😢

[Taz2]

I feel like that with wine nowdays ever since that woman talked about the cancer risk. Every time I have my nightly glass (which puts me smack on the limit each week) I feel like I'm drinking a glass of cancer! It's daft and stops enjoyment in life.

We do need to be told about any new findings in relation to health and possible risks from treatments but it is then important to look at things logically, which I realise is difficult for us in our hormonal state, and we should read Dr Currie's advice and stick with that. I have three friends at the moment going through treatment for breast cancer and none of them have ever taken HRT.

Taz x

[zelda]

I so agree Taz. I am more than happy to be guided by Dr Currie I doubt if there is anyone on the planet that knows as much as Meno/HRT as Dr. Currie.

If any of us on HRT find difficulty in obtaining HRT from our doctors I wonder what would happen if we said we would be happy to sign a document saying we are totally aware of any risks etc but still want to take HRT, could they still refuse it?

[dahliagirl]

It is difficult with the way these studies are presented in the press.  If it were anything else, the results would probably go through committees and people like Dr Curry, where they would be assessed and the results verified,  before they even saw the light of the press.

It is terribly hard dealing with it in real life at times.  I had 2 mammograms, and a recall by the time I was 51, with the breast screening service, even though I had no worries on that score ever before and now I am worried, in the back of my mind, every time I have a flicker of a normal change.  I don't think coming off hrt would make a difference, though, because the small possibility is still there.

I take heart from my in-laws though.  They both died early from cancer within a year of each other.  They lived quiet sensible lives, had parents who lived until their late 80s/90s, drank sherry at weddings, spent a lot of time outdoors and walking, cycling.  They followed the health advice, and had all their check ups and never left anything too late.  They both had unusual cancers that were too late to treat.  Nothing could have been done to stop it.  My mother-in-law said that she had had a good life and no regrets.  It was a huge shock at the time, but after a while, I realised that you have to enjoy what you have.

[Tempest]

Not only hormonal fluctuations, but low or virtually non existent estrogen levels Menomale.

I speak from my own experience in surgical menopause. The symptoms of extremely low or virtually non existent estrogen on the brain and body are beyond devastating. Everything, and I mean everything, ceases to function correctly. If left in this position, the estrogen receptors (which are present in many organs in the body) then down regulate, which means that if you then introduce a source of ERT into the body, it either fails to react as quickly or reacts in an unpredictable or violent manner.

Also the strain on the adrenal glands from the sudden removal of the ovaries is enormous, and they often cannot cope with this sudden demand if an adequate level of ERT isn't introduced.

My SIL who is a biochemist spoke to a colleague this week who is a Consultant Endocrinologist on my behalf, and this was his explanation.

This of course would not be so violent in women whose ovaries are intact and at least producing a trickle of hormones post menopause.

I would love to see a counterbalance study of this very issue. No one has to my knowledge done a comprehensive study of the effects of declining estrogen on the body. But I can categorically say from my own experience that this situation at its worse (say, in surgical menopause) is a greater risk to health than ERT would ever be. It is known that removal of the ovaries increases significantly the risk of developing ALL other known cancers.

I know my situation is different to many here on MM (there are a few of us surgical menopause ladies around, but we are of course the vast minority). But it certainly gives food for thought when looking at 'the other side of the coin', as it were.

[babyjane]

Personally I am not hung up on the age I live to, although I would like to see my 60s and 70s, but if I live to 94, like both my grandmothers (neither of whom ever heard of HRT) it does not necessarily mean that I am going to end up like Dana said 'hot flushes, insomnia, anxiety, depression, osteoporosis, and a whole host of other ailments, and eventually die after living a miserable 30 years.'.
 
My Nanna was never miserable, depressed or anxious in her life and neither of them had osteoporosis or any sort of heart trouble.  they were pretty healthy and saw their grandchildren and great grandchildren growing up.  A cancer death is no picnic, I saw my mum die of cancer and no, she didn't take any HRT either.

Life is for living, just live it

[linz57]

I agree with you Tempest, I would love to see a survey done into the effects of low estrogen on the body. Maybe that would throw up more problems than this latest report does! Bowel cancer, heart disease, etc etc. It all seems so one sided .....

[Tinkerbell]

Agree with you Babyjane

After witnessing and being part of a very traumatic event 3 years ago and still dealing with the fallout to some extent I have changed my outlook on life.
I live for today and am not worrying about the future.
I hope to be able to continue with my HRT if it suits ( still early days) and am not worrying about this latest report.