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Author Topic: I'm new and REALLY struggling  (Read 5716 times)

Melissa

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I'm new and REALLY struggling
« on: August 09, 2016, 03:05:59 PM »

Hi there
Last November I was diagnosed as being post menopausal having had a number of horrible symptoms for a while but no GP thinking to check my bloods as I'm early 40's. I was put on Kliovance and, whilst they sorted my flushes and horrendous vaginal dryness out I'm very low and feel in a fog. I was prescribed Citalopram 2 yrs ago as the GP thought my low mood was down to depression and am now only on 10mg a day. I have no sex drive, am really nasty to my poor kids and quite often want to hide under my duvet and not face the world. Before I was outgoing and loved to party and socialise.
Should I go back to my GP to request a different HRT regime? I'm thinking I should ask to see a specialist as I don't feel my GP really knows what she's doing (I really believe GP's are amazing but they have to be jack of all trades and master of none). I'm based in S Oxfordshire and feeling very lonely as don't have a single friend who knows how I feel as they are all early to mid forties and not menopausal at all....
M xx
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Ju Ju

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2016, 03:46:53 PM »

I did seek help privately, but with the support of my GP, but mainly because I am over 60. You could see if your GP can refer you to see a gynaecologist. It costs me in the region of about £150 for a private appointment and I go once a year for a review. I do have to travel a distance. The gynaecologist writes to my GP and I get my prescriptions from her, which means free as I am over 60. I can email my gynaecologist in between times if I have any problems. I consider this money well spent. My prescription is tailored to my needs. My GP would have not had the expertise or experience to tweak it. As you say, GPs can't be specialists in all areas.
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babyjane

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2016, 03:55:12 PM »

you poor thing.  Can I just reassure you that kids are resilient.  Ours had a rough ride at times with me and my mood swings and since they have grown up I have felt guilty that their childhoods and teenage years were so difficult.

Well, you should have heard the speech they gave at our wedding anniversary party recently, they love and respect us so much and although they clearly remember the rough bits it does not define them.  They are all well adjusted with their own families and are all really good parents.

Try not to beat yourself up.
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Linda57

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2016, 04:05:37 PM »

Hi Melissa,
I've just joined this site too. Some words come to mind...

"Note to self...I am doing the best I can with what I have in this moment, and that is all I can expect of anyone..including me !"

 :foryou:
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Hurdity

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2016, 04:25:53 PM »

Hi Melissa

 :welcomemm:

When you say you were diagnosed as post-menopausal - was this on the basis of having been without a natural period for 12 months ( which is the only way it can be diagnosed properly) - or maybe you have a Mirena coil and were getting symptoms and so had a blood test?

What a pity you were given Citalopram by your doc refusing to consider early menopause, if your symptoms were hormonal. This is now contrary to the new NICE Guidelines which says that HRT should be the first line of treatment for menopause.

For women of your age blood tests may be used although cycle changes combined with symptoms are a more reliable guide and blood tests are notoriously unreliable. They cannot be used to determine if a woman is post-menopausal - because during peri-menopause FSH levels sometimes go into the post-menopausal range: http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/diagnose.php

If you are menopausal then loss of libido does tend to occur in many women. This won't be helped by the Citalopram and also tablet HRT which can also depress libido.

In addition you are on a continuous combined HRT which means that you are getting a continuous dose of a synthetic progestogen ( norethisterone) which can give rise to unpleasant side effects in some women.

In your position I would try a different type of HRT and in the first instance ask your GP. If you are prepared to have a withdrawal bleed, then I would try a cyclical HRT which means you take oestrogen for 16 days and combine it with a progestogen for 12 days ( approx). This way you would at least be able to tell which bit of the HRT suits you best. A better one to try is Femoston - you could start with 1/10 (same oestrogen dose as Kliovance) and then go up to 2/10. Hopefully you can then wean off the Citalopram.

Another option is to take separate oestrogen (tablet, patch or gel) and progestogen (ideally progesterone - Utrogestan) which means you could then tweak the oestrogen dose until you felt well. Transdermal HRT (patch or gel) should not depress libido to the same extent (so I've read!).

Hope this helps and do let us know how you get on :)

Hurdity x
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Freckles

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2016, 12:47:49 AM »

Hi Melissa
I really feel for you- like you I was recently offered antidepressant's recently by my GP, and told I needed to be weaned off HRT although I was prescribed Femoston1/10 (which in retrospect did only work when I was premenopausal for about 6 months) about 5 years ago. I'm only 55!
Personally I am not a fan of antidepressants (although I realise they may be effective for some women) as for me, all they do is flatten my emotional symptoms even more for me and I felt like a walking zombie, albeit an anxious one nevertheless.
I 'knew' my problems were hormonal in origin and I was proved right. .
I had lots of psychological symptoms which I realised where due to being given the wrong sort of HRT, in the wrong amount and the wrong dosage. Although I was on Femoston 1/10, my oestrogen levels were just 72! Double figures and lower than most men's levels. No wonder I felt so awful.
Long story short, I realised my GP did not have the knowledge or the interest to help me, I knew very little about HRT, came on this forum, did lots of research on the subject and decided to see Prof. John Studd privately. 

I know many posters on MM also have seen him and/or had his HRT regime prescribed by other medics. I was prescribed a similar regime to many of the MM posters who advocate his treatment.
Mary G here on MM was really informative for me about the treatment regime he advocates and is an amazing source of HRT knowledge! She knew more than my 12 year old GP. Maybe read her posts? I found her information so incredibly helpful
Transdermal oestrogen (i.e. gel or patches) are far safer and more effective than tablets and seem to be the preferred option of treatment.
I use 3 pumps of Oestrogel gel daily, a tiny small bead of Testim (testosterone) gel daily, (the latter two continuously) and Utrogestan at 100 mg (vaginally) for just seven days each month to get a withdrawal bleed that's needed.  Far shorter use of Utrogestan than the NHS recommends but I still get the necessary monthly withdrawal bled and without the horrible side effects I know I would get at the NHS recommended dose (which is 200m daily, twice as much dosage, for 12, not seven days).

Testim and Oestrogel gels work to improve mood, energy and libido.

I can honestly say I feel better after being on this regime for nearly 4 months than I have done for years and my anxiety, depression/ low mood, lack of motivation for most things, lack of libido, VA,  etc., have gone.  It really has changed my life and I would never consider tablet forms of HRT again. .

I know the "one size fits all" guidelines as prescribed by the NHS doesn't always work or is ineffective for many women with hormone issues and in my opinion is driven often by financial considerations rather than clinical needs.

I'd suggest reading other posts on here, and online, getting as much information as possible about current valid treatment options.
Even if you don't want to see Studd or don't want to go privately to someone else, I'd suggest looking at his web site for information on HRT (it's really helpful), reading other MM posts about Utrogestan and Oestrogel (think there is a thread on "All Things Menopausal").  Also, Studd's regime IS prescribed on the NHS (I get all of mine prescribed by my GP after I saw him and he wrote a letter to my GP requesting that).

At least that way you can go armed with up to date information to take with to your GP, to request what might be a more effective treatment regime that what you are currently getting.

Also request blood tests of your oestrogen, testosterone, progesterone, FSH levels etc.  At least that way you can get an indication of what sort of hormone levels you are currently at.

At the very least, do think twice about requesting HRT tablets. The clinical evidence clearly indicates that they are not as effective or as safe as transdermal gels or patches but HRT tablets seem to be a cheaper 'go to' outdated option for many GP's and with more side effects for many women.

Hope that helps and good luck!

Let us know how you get on?
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Mary G

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2016, 08:24:58 PM »

Melissa, welcome to MM!

As Freckles says, it is vital to get the right type of HRT at the right dose at the right age and I don't think Kliovance is the right type of HRT for you.  For a start, it contains norethisterone which is notorious for causing endless side effects in some women and if you are one of those women, it is not a viable option.

Firstly, I think you should go back to your GP and try to obtain a different type of HRT and I would recommend Oestrogel, Utrogestan (a micronised progesterone which is best used vaginally) and perhaps testosterone but I would suggest a hormone blood test first to get an idea of your levels.  Like Freckles, I am using this regime and it is very, very good and none of the other HRT preparations I tried previously even came close to it.  The key to the success of this regime is its flexibility and the ability to use less Utrogestan if necessary and to easily adjust the oestrogen dose.  I am severely intolerant to all types of progesterone in HRT preparations so I only take 100mg Utrogestan (vaginally) for 7 days.  It is a cyclical regime which means you will have periods but it is a price worth paying for getting your life back. 

From what you have said, it sounds as though you might be intolerant to synthetic progesterone and if so, you need to be careful about how much you take and here comes the sticking point.  The NHS prescribe more synthetic progesterone/Utrogestan in HRT regimes than Professor Studd and this can lead to women giving up on HRT completely because of unbearable side effects.  Obviously you won't know until you try but it is worth bearing in mind.

Therefore, if you don't have any joy with your GP and you can afford it, I would recommend seeking the advice of Professor Studd or someone similar because despite the new NHS guidelines, we still have far too many women on this forum who are being prescribed ADs when they need HRT and in some cases, the wrong type of HRT so it is worth consulting a hormone expert if you can and if you are a particularly difficult case as I was. 

Freckles, thank you for your kind words, I am pleased I was able to offer some useful advice although I would not have been able to do so if I had not had the life changing help from Professor Studd.  I am so pleased that you are feeling so much better and your regime is going well.

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Vanessa1

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2016, 08:32:23 AM »

Hi Melissa,

I'm on Femoston 2/10 which is a sequential type HRT (gives you a monthly bleed) and I'm doing great;  I started on 1/10 and upped the dosage when I needed to.

It's a tablet form of HRT and I've not had any problems whatsoever.

If you have a look at the links at the top of the page 'HRT preparations' you will find there are lots to choose from and you might have to try a few before you settle.

Good luck xx
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Melissa

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2016, 07:21:18 AM »

Thank you all soooo much for your help. I've got an appt with Nick Parvay in Oct (anyone know anything about him?? He was recommended by a male doctor friend). I know my GP has tried her best but she must be limited with her knowledge so I'm going to try different alternatives.
A few of you have already talked about blood tests...do I need to get the Kliovance out of my system before these so as to get a 'true' reading?
Thank you all again. The sisterhood rocks!!
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CLKD

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2016, 07:40:02 PM »

 :welcomemm:

Blood tests are reliably un-reliable!  My Gynea won't do them, relies on a lady's symptoms.  I would go with the HRT as prescribed for 3-4 months to see if there is any benefit.  Or send Dr Nick an e-mail to ask whether he prefers a Consultant free of HRT. 

He has been mentioned here.
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MIS71MUM

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2016, 08:15:40 PM »

Hi Melissa
I feel like you in terms of my children, mine are 6 and 7 and I'm 45!
I mean this with the upmost respect, the GP's do not have the depth of knowledge when it comes to HRT.
My female GP was useless, she said HRT would not affect your mood and was happy to prescribe AD's.

Freckles - just out of interest, you seem to have been transformed by Prof Studd. Are you peri or post?
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Hurdity

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2016, 09:13:30 PM »

Hi again Melissa

Nick Panay is one of the best!!! I would go to see him any day. He still practises on NHS as well as privately but is in great demand so that's why you have to wait.

You don't really need blood tests - although a private consultant might do them and under certain circumstances - as you are in early 40's but they are so unreliable as to be meaningless. Definitely don't stop HRT. At your age and stage it's just a question of finding the right type/dose of HRT and you have had several suggestions. You need the oestrogen!

As CLKD says - perhpas e-mail Dr (Mr?) Panay in advance to ask if you will need them (blood tests).

I would still suggest you go back to your GP and change your HRT to a cyclical one in the meantime starting with Femoston 1/10 as I suggested. Being on a cycle will give you a withdrawal bleed but should stop the brain fog. As I said in my post below you could then increase to 2/10 which will give you more oestrogen. You may need to be assertive with your GP - explain you have read that continuous progestogen can lead to brain fog and especially norethisterone in the Kliovance. Therefore you want to try a cyclical HRT and a better tolerated progestogen. Femoston contains dydrogesterone which is much closer to our own progesterone than the one in Kliovance.

When you get to your appointment you will have a better idea of how you feel once you have changed and if he then suggests the gel or patch combo with separate progesterone and maybe testosterone - well you can change then if Femoston doesn't work ( if you decide to try this).

Hope this is helpful :)

Hurdity x
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Freckles

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2016, 11:13:58 PM »

Mis71Mum
I fully agree with you- think most GP's are out of their depth when it comes to HRT and treating the symptoms of the individual.  They rely on a "one size fits all" attitude.
I am post menopausal (55 years) and was on Femoston 1/10 for 5 years.
Personally (and I realise some women like using it) I found Femoston  totally ineffective after the first six months when I was peri-menopausal and my symptoms got so worse over at least the last 2 to 3 years.
My GP also said I shouldn't be on ANY HRT at all (soley due to my age) and wanted to me give AD's
I wish I'd known about Studd's regime for HRT, using oestrogen and testosterone gels, shorter and lower doses of Utrogestan (rather than tablets), years ago as it would have saved me several years of misery!
Just to add I went for my check up with Studd last week. he had printed copies of a very interesting articles he has written on peri-menopausal women. He suggests that for women with what he calls "reproductive depression"  (i.e. with a severe history of PMS, good mood when pregnant but not afterwards when periods return, PND, recurrent cyclical depression/anxiety) that their depression/anxiety, loss of libido, brain fog. etc.)  becomes worse and less cyclical  in the 3-4 years as they approach menopause. He also suggests that peri-menopausal women often have oestrogen levels in the "normal" range and are therefore given AD's but he suggests that AD's are likely to be ineffective for this group of women and that increasing oestrogen levels via the safer and more effective form of patches or gels, as compared to the old fashioned tablets, is the best treatment option for hormone caused  depression, anxiety etc.
An interesting read! 


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CLKD

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2016, 03:59:32 PM »

Is Nick a Surgeon - then he's a "Mister" - if not, he's a Doctor.
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Hurdity

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Re: I'm new and REALLY struggling
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2016, 08:20:22 PM »

Panay is referred to on the web as Mr and Dr on various different medical websites but I see one of his specialities is reproductive medicine and surgery so he is probably a Mr - but as I said he is also listed as Dr!

Hurdity x
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