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[kdee69]

So...having had to listen to numerous women tell me about the evils of HRT and how it only delays the menopause and how it'll come on with a vengeance once I stop my Elleste duet and how there's a higher risk of every disease/illness known to man... And I'm not kidding... I've come in here as this time, Google has not been my friend. I also know I can ask a seemingly stupid question and not get some smart cocky reply.
So here's my stupid question..

IS it true that by taking HRT I Am just delaying the menopause and when I stop, then I will go through it in exactly the same way as if I hadn't taken the HRT?

Because, (more stupid questions) if that's the case and the HRT is delaying it, why do your symptoms worsen so that you have to go on a stronger dose over time (surely there would be no symptoms) and if it is the case, does that mean if I'm peri now I'll have a potential Peri and full menopause when I stop the HRT?

I'd really love to get my head around this once and for all so all answers will be very gratefully received.

[Taz2]

Hi kdee69 - it is a truly perplexing question and I can only answer for myself. I am 62 now and began HRT at the age of 53 due to really awful night and day sweats which meant I was in danger of losing my job. I have tried to come off HRT at 59 as my not very enlightened doctor at the time decided that 60 was the cut off point - something that was reinforced by the menopause clinic much to my surprise. My symptoms returned over the next three months until they were exactly the same as when I had begun HRT. I was put back on HRT but have had to stop a few months ago due to my blood pressure being slightly raised. My symptoms are now just as they were when I was 53.

My friend of the same age decided not to go down the HRT route. She has had ten years of horrible symptoms. She left her job early due to her inability to cope with no sleep and debilitating sweats and anxiety. We are now in the same boat but, and this is the important "but", I have had almost ten years of relief from symptoms and she hasn't.

Nobody knows how an individual will react when they stop HRT. Some women get no symptoms at all, others have a return of symptoms which gradually subside over the next few months and some, like me, go back to square one. I am grateful to have had some years of still feeling good. My friend, on the other hand, now wishes she had tried HRT for at least a few years.

As you get older then your body makes less of it's own oestrogen, even if you are on HRT, and so you have to replace more oestrogen via a higher dose of HRT to stop symptoms. I'm not sure about the peri question though. Someone else will be along with more information i'm sure.

Taz x

[kdee69]

Thanks both. It's incredible isn't it that I can't find what seems a simple answer to this question. The drop in Oestrogen makes sense as to the strength. Surely though there is somewhere which details the actual black and white facts? My doctor was clueless-originally putting me on 2mg rather than 1mg ! He really didn't have any answers to my questions. I'm hoping someone can point to a link in a white paper, article, website (trusted) that can answer.

[Ju Ju]

I suffered until I was 60 without HRT. At the suggestion and recommendation of my GP, I sought help from a private gynaecologist, as it was being suggested I was suffering from CFS. I wasn't convinced. The gynaecologist said I was very unlucky to be still suffering. I started on the lowest dose and my quality of life improved considerably. I have been told I can take HRT 'forever' as long as there are no contraindications.

It it very unlikely that you will get any definitive answer. Only experiences. That's because there are so many aspects contributing to a woman's experience of menopause, for example, other health issues that may be compounded by the onset of menopause, life experience, stress, diet and so on. Some women either cope with mild symptoms or simply sail through, while others like me struggle to work, let alone do anything else. My symptoms got worse as I got older.

[Mary G]

If women are still talking about the evils of HRT despite the discredited and outdated studies and new guidelines then I think it is very, very sad and the message is clearly not getting through.

I wonder if we will ever know why many women's lives have been ruined on the back of those dangerously misleading and badly conducted studies?  When are they going to finally be put out to pasture?

As others have said, there is no longer an age or time limit on HRT.  5 years was plucked out of the air in a panic on the back of the flawed studies and it now transpires that there should never have been a time limit and there is no reason to ever stop taking it.  It is important to start HRT as soon as your oestrogen levels drop in order to get the best out of it and before things deteriorate too much and there are fewer risks too i.e. you are not shocking your system. 

I am an HRT lifer which is a decision I made a long time ago so I don't intend to find out what would happen if I stopped taking it. 

Re women who do decide to stop using HRT, I have heard various stories and obviously some women do better than others but I think it is safe to assume that nobody is going to do particularly well if they suddenly deprive themselves of oestrogen because it controls so many vital bodily functions and without it, things start to go wrong. 

I am going to say what I always say and that is, if you don't get anywhere with your doctor, seek help privately with a menopause specialist like Professor Studd.  Don't waste too much time flogging a dead horse, life's too short.   

[dazned]

Dont think you will get a definitive answer as each person experiences it different .

I cant subscribe to the view that without estrogen our vital body functions start to go wrong else all women would be wrecks !  just mho though.

Its a personal choice and it would stand to reason I think that if you choose to start hrt because symptoms were bad for you when your own levels started dropping ,then if later on you stopped hrt some symptoms might well return. Many do stop and are ok,many stop and are not. Now wheres that piece of string............. 

[Hurdity]

Great post Taz I agree with most of what the others have said - there cannot be a definite answer because as Taz and others say the degree to which symptoms return if/when you stop HRT will depend on you as an individual and there is no black and white answer.

What is absolute though - is you will not have another peri-menopause if/when you stop HRT. What happens is that most women start to take HRT while they are peri-menopausal, and the ovaries continue to do their thing in the background, becoming less and less efficient. Eventually they pack up and ovulation no longer occurs. In the two years immediately following the last period ( ie the menopause) - hormones continue to fluctuate a little - but nowhere near the level at ovulation, and gradually decline to their final much lower level approx two years after the last period. There is some low level activity for some years after this though.

If you have been taking HRT all this time - when you stop you will have well passed the time when your hormones are going haywire, surging up and down, ovaries are pumping out eggs or not. All will have ceased, and all is stable. You will no longer have that to contend with. What happens when you stop HRT at this point is that your oestrogen levels just fall steadily with all the changes that occur - eg bone turnover ( increased), bladder problems etc until it gets to the low level it would have got to if you hadn't taken HRT. No more mood swings - but possibly permanent low mood/anxiety - depending on your individual make-up.

That's a very long-winded way of saying the same thing that Taz said - but I'm not good at being brief!!!!

If you want an explanation - simple one here about what happens in peri-menopause: http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/article-perils-of-the-perimenopause.php Lots of other information on the main site about menppause, and a technical one here about the stages of reproductive ageing which summarises what happens at each stage in terms of hormones (FSH and others). http://www.imsociety.org/downloads/email_downloads/2012_02_16_1773491/straw10.pdf

What's Prof Studd got to do with it Mary G? Kdee69 was not asking for help with who to go to or a private specialist - she was just asking about menopause! She is already on HRT and did not indicate she was unhappy with it! Do you work for him or something as you mention him in almost every post?!!!

Your questions are not at all stupid kdee69 - it is a natural thing to ask. I knew absolutely nothing about menopause and HRT except for periods stopping and flushes starting - when I started skipping periods!

Hurdity x

[kdee69]

Wow everyone (especially Taz and Hurdity) thank you so much. Honestly, I now feel I have way more understanding of what's going on (in the background - so to speak) - I am happy with my HRT and would happily take it for life!

I honestly want to thank you - you've been amaze-balls!

[Dancinggirl]

kdee69 - the scaremongering about HRT really drives us ‘nuts' on MM.
HRT actually protects our bones and heart for the longer term and I believe one is less likely to develop bowel cancer as well.  Oestrogen deficiency causes havoc with our ‘lady bit's' and bladder so HRt will help with this as well. There are many, many up sides to HRT and the very small risks don't kick in till 60.  As for delaying the menopause - well, I'm 60 and been on and off HRT since my 30s due to premature meno - I have had breaks from HRT at various stages and as I've got older the symptoms do seem to be less severe each time I take a break.  I do think the severity of meno symptoms when you do stop will depend on your lifestyle at the time - so coming off HRT when one is a bit older and able to take life a bit more easily certainly makes a big difference. If you are still working (as many of us do until our late 60s now) then this can be stressful and tiring so HRT will enable you to cope.

I have also found that as I've aged and got deeper into meno that I actually need less oestrogen to control symptoms -  I believe many women use too high a dose unnecessarily, believing the higher dose will be beneficial. We are all different so you wouldn't necessarily need to take large doses - in fact many find a gradually reduction over a couple of years helps to ease the withdrawal.
Keep enjoying life right here and now.  DG x

[Hurdity]

I must admit though I am wondering when to stop - getting really fed up with taking progesterone and having a bleed at 63 but there is no way I would want to take continuous progesterone! Nor do I want to carry on like this for ever.... if I had no womb there would be no contest - I would just carry on but make sure I got checked out (re breasts and ovaries etc) frequently. For me it's not really the hot flushes because in a couple of years I may well retire completely from working so would be able to cope with them (lie on a sofa, mop my brow etc  ) - it's more the effect on the bladder and the general laxity of everything, as well as all the aches and pains I got when I stopped and before I took testosterone.  This is the natural post-menopausal oestrogen deficient state - which then lasts for the rest of your life! I think some women just do not seem to suffer so much or may have naturally higher levels of their own oestrogen -  which would be one advantage for women who have extra fat!

I agree with Dancinggirl - defo enjoy life while you can

Hurdity x

[Dana]

That's constantly my worry too Hurdity. My possible solution, seeing as Provera doesn't seem to bother me too much, is to take it for 21 days a month, in the hope that I can tolerate taking it a bit longer, but giving me a break from it for the rest of the month. My hope is that taking it for longer will mean I will either get no period, or a very light period, and so it will be a "happy medium" between a cycle and a continuous routine. Of course it could work out that even those 9 days or so without the prog will still mean I'll get a period, so I'll be back at square one. I'm also hoping that I might also be able to reduce my estrogen dose a bit so maybe that could help too.

My other solution is that if I'm in my 70s and still having a period is to just stop taking the prog altogether and let whatever is going to happen, happen. The worst that will happen is that I'll get cancer and die, but that won't happen over night and we all have to go sometime. I don't want to be living my twilight years in insomnia hell anyway, which is what will happen now if I stop HRT.

Of course maybe by that time someone will have found a solution to this problem, or maybe I'll have been able to talk someone into giving me a hysterectomy.

[Dana]

We are all different so you wouldn't necessarily need to take large doses - in fact many find a gradually reduction over a couple of years helps to ease the withdrawal.
Keep enjoying life right here and now.  DG x

This is one of my hopes. I plan on trying to reduce my patch at some point by just cutting tiny bits off every few months or so, and doing this progressively over a couple of years. It might be another experiment of mine that won't work, but ya gotta try!