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[coolatlast]

Just a casual observation Silverlady -  Just when a topic is going well - i've noticed that you have a habit of throwing in a remark that seems designed to cause trouble.

You've done it in the middle of (this) Sunchick's topic and you have also done it to me on the other thread -(when I mentioned that HRT had made my hair and nails better.)

Not nice.

[Rowan]

 Sarah you are wrong, I agree with HB because she is the voice of reason on more then one occasion.

I am in no way picking on you.

I  already have PMed Emma.

[honeybun]

Yep, I am.off to PM Emma.

I don't run and tell tales but this is just getting out of hand. This is not what MM is about at all.
No need to abuse anyone.
I thought we were supposed to be grown ups.


Honeyb

[Dandelion]

Hi Sunchick

Thanks for your offer of help to UK ladies.
We have real difficulty over here with HRT and I just don't know why.
It's a real taboo with my GP who is actually going through the menopause herself, but without HRT as she says she is not allowed due to medical reasons.
I just don't know why. My GP was even comparing it to the diazepam that I once had an involuntary addiction to, (prescribed wrongly by her)
I just don't get it.

Also, can UK women who have difficulty with their HRT not just come off prescribed HRT and order from online pharmacies?
I know it costs, but would it be more than prescription costs?
We're not talking about controlled drugs here, we're talking about hormones, that are easier to get in other countries anyway.

[sunchick]

Hi All,

sunchick you said that

"Meanwhile, I married my man and we decided to move to Spain. In the back of my mind I was worried about giving up HRT, especially as Spanish doctors aren't keen on prescribing it" and then say it is freely available over the counter at Pharmacists
Why are Spanish doctors not keen to prescribe HRT?

Please don't say that Pharmacists know what they are doing (I know they are well trained but they are not Doctors and they won't know your medical history)  they are in it for profit too, to me this sounds like a risky business, I have had a Pharmacist diagnose and sell me treatment) he was completely wrong!

Silverlady, the reluctance to prescribe seems to be a cultural thing; Spain is still a very religious and traditional place in some ways. Hopefully as we get younger doctors coming into the system, this will change.  Re. the pharmacists - you're correct, they don't know my medical history - but I do!  And they ask.  I've seen well-trained doctors misdiagnose ailments over and over again, and if you move around as I do and have to see new GPs I end up running through my history with them; they don't have time to read decades of notes. Same thing in the end.

Hi Sunchick

Thanks for your offer of help to UK ladies.
We have real difficulty over here with HRT and I just don't know why.
It's a real taboo with my GP who is actually going through the menopause herself, but without HRT as she says she is not allowed due to medical reasons.
I just don't know why. My GP was even comparing it to the diazepam that I once had an involuntary addiction to, (prescribed wrongly by her)
I just don't get it.

Also, can UK women who have difficulty with their HRT not just come off prescribed HRT and order from online pharmacies?
I know it costs, but would it be more than prescription costs?
We're not talking about controlled drugs here, we're talking about hormones, that are easier to get in other countries anyway.

Dandelion, yes you can order from online pharmacies, for example pharmacy2u. They ask you to scan in your prescription. If you haven't got one, you can consult their online doctor who can issue a prescription to you. As to the cost, if you look on the website it should tell you. It's so sad that you're not getting the help you need, can you see another GP? Perhaps your current one has a case of sour grapes - can't take it herself so no-one else can? As for comparing it to diazepam.....what the hell ??
That's scary, I would really try & find another GP. I'm happy to try and help, but you'd need to know what would be best for you - I'm sure if you gave the forum your history the smart ladies here would put forward some suggestions? (Sorry if you already did this on another post, I'm a new member so not up to speed with you all.)

Anyway ladies, taken three of the magic tablets so far and feeling more like me   again.  The bed is still dry, my joints are amazingly so much better and the headache has gone. Still the odd flush but I'm expecting that to stop as the tablets kick in properly. So far, I'm very happy that I decided to restart   

[Rowan]

sunchick I understand your thoughts on GPs, I think I have been lucky with mine, I have travelled around almost since I was born and lived all over the world and have always had understanding and good GPs, on reflection I think I think Service Medical Officers and hospitals were amongst the best for care.

I personally would not risk using unprescribed powerful homones from Pharmacists, because if something goes wrong where is the recall. 

I know this is a very emotive subject as is obvious from this thread, and it is up to the individual woman what she decides for her health and wellbeing, I think that is what this thread is about.

I have used and am using progesterone cream ( which is the same strength as the pharmacy gel just a different delivery method)) the progesterone gel that a friend bought back from France, but they are low doses physiological  (I think that is the term) and I have not used then for menopausal symptoms especially, as I said in my post I had no idea any other hormone was available eg, estrogen progestin/progesterone/ testosterone was available OTC. I know they have compounding Pharmacies in America.

Perhaps this is the way in the future , but to me its taking chances without your Doctors knowledge, especially in Britain.

I always inform my Doctor what I am doing for Preventative health. I view it as a matter of courtesy.

I know many on MM have different views.

 

[Dandelion]

Hi All,

sunchick you said that

"Meanwhile, I married my man and we decided to move to Spain. In the back of my mind I was worried about giving up HRT, especially as Spanish doctors aren't keen on prescribing it" and then say it is freely available over the counter at Pharmacists
Why are Spanish doctors not keen to prescribe HRT?

Please don't say that Pharmacists know what they are doing (I know they are well trained but they are not Doctors and they won't know your medical history)  they are in it for profit too, to me this sounds like a risky business, I have had a Pharmacist diagnose and sell me treatment) he was completely wrong!

Silverlady, the reluctance to prescribe seems to be a cultural thing; Spain is still a very religious and traditional place in some ways. Hopefully as we get younger doctors coming into the system, this will change.  Re. the pharmacists - you're correct, they don't know my medical history - but I do!  And they ask.  I've seen well-trained doctors misdiagnose ailments over and over again, and if you move around as I do and have to see new GPs I end up running through my history with them; they don't have time to read decades of notes. Same thing in the end.

Hi Sunchick

Thanks for your offer of help to UK ladies.
We have real difficulty over here with HRT and I just don't know why.
It's a real taboo with my GP who is actually going through the menopause herself, but without HRT as she says she is not allowed due to medical reasons.
I just don't know why. My GP was even comparing it to the diazepam that I once had an involuntary addiction to, (prescribed wrongly by her)
I just don't get it.

Also, can UK women who have difficulty with their HRT not just come off prescribed HRT and order from online pharmacies?
I know it costs, but would it be more than prescription costs?
We're not talking about controlled drugs here, we're talking about hormones, that are easier to get in other countries anyway.

Dandelion, yes you can order from online pharmacies, for example pharmacy2u. They ask you to scan in your prescription. If you haven't got one, you can consult their online doctor who can issue a prescription to you. As to the cost, if you look on the website it should tell you. It's so sad that you're not getting the help you need, can you see another GP? Perhaps your current one has a case of sour grapes - can't take it herself so no-one else can? As for comparing it to diazepam.....what the hell ??
That's scary, I would really try & find another GP. I'm happy to try and help, but you'd need to know what would be best for you - I'm sure if you gave the forum your history the smart ladies here would put forward some suggestions? (Sorry if you already did this on another post, I'm a new member so not up to speed with you all.)

Anyway ladies, taken three of the magic tablets so far and feeling more like me   again.  The bed is still dry, my joints are amazingly so much better and the headache has gone. Still the odd flush but I'm expecting that to stop as the tablets kick in properly. So far, I'm very happy that I decided to restart   

Hi Sunchick

Fortunately, for me, my Femomston is now doing the job it is supposed to do, but I was referring to other ladies who are unable to get HRT or who are unable to get the right HRT for them.

As for my doctor, I only stay with her because she knows my history.
I am not able to work and have to claim benefits, and they periodically require medical evidence, so this doctor is able to give the evidence, as I have been with her for over ten years now.
She is good for some things, but I am really puzzled as to her attitude on HRT.
She is of the old school and beleives that women inevitabley have to go through menopause after they come off HRT, and is oblivious to the fact that women no longer need to come off HRT if they are unfortunate enough to suffer meno symptoms for years and years on end.

[Winterose]

There is a lot of chat about sleep on the radio today.  Lack of sleep leads to all sorts of ill effects, heart disease, depression, diabetes etc.  So I think if HRT gives you a reasonably undisturbed sleep that must be a big positive healthwise whatever your age.  Perhaps you can use that argument to balance out the GPs concerns re giving up HRT at 60.  I personally intend to stay on it for as long as required. 

If HRT was withdrawn from me now with no other than the 60yr argument i too would be off to Spain,

[Taz2]

I was thinking the same, Winterose, when they were discussing the sleep problem on the radio this morning. Will print off anything relevant and keep it just in case!

You can hear the article here if anyone else is interested on how our lifestyle is affecting our sleep http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/today

Taz x

[honeybun]

I tried telling my 19yr old about this. It was about 2pm and she had just got out of bed   

Her sleep pattern is upside down and she does not care. I gave up a long time ago. Life is just too short to be stressing about how much and when she sleeps 


Honeyb
x

[sunchick]

There is a lot of chat about sleep on the radio today.  Lack of sleep leads to all sorts of ill effects, heart disease, depression, diabetes etc.  So I think if HRT gives you a reasonably undisturbed sleep that must be a big positive healthwise whatever your age.  Perhaps you can use that argument to balance out the GPs concerns re giving up HRT at 60.  I personally intend to stay on it for as long as required. 

If HRT was withdrawn from me now with no other than the 60yr argument i too would be off to Spain,

You're so right Winterose. It's awful to have too little or disturbed sleep, makes you feel (and look) even worse than you did to start with. No wonder some people take to the drink to knock them out

[Dandelion]

Hi there everyone,

I haven't posted before although I've dipped into the site on & off over the years - love the depth of knowledge and the support here.

Anyway, have noticed a growing trend in the posts about the 'no HRT over 60 rule' and thought I'd add my experience. I had a relatively early meno, was about 46 I think. My gem of a doctor gave me the results of my blood tests, told me I was entering menopause, and said 'HRT?'  Oh yes, I replied, gimme!  After trying a 28 day cycle (can't remember the name of it) and turning into the Bitch Queen from Hell during the prog phase, he suggested a long cycle one - Tridestra.  It was perfect for me from the start and I happily stayed with it for years.

Due to house moves over the years I've seen various GPs. All said that as long as I was well-informed about the risks & benefits, it was my decision and they were happy to prescribe. All except the last one, that is. Ooh, you're 59 - you should let nature take it's course, dear - it isn't normal to keep taking medication to prevent what should have happened years ago.....  After much debate with this (seemingly) 12 year old girl, she gave me another 3 months. You wait till you're 59 I thought. Then I went back and saw an older lady GP. Aha, someone with a bit of sense & sympathy? Nah. Same mantra as the 12 year old. Wrangled another 6 months, but she made it plain that I was very naughty and this would be the last time, I am supposed to accept everything the meno might throw at me and smile through it.

Meanwhile, I married my man and we decided to move to Spain. In the back of my mind I was worried about giving up HRT, especially as Spanish doctors aren't keen on prescribing it. I took the last of my Tridestra back in February and after a couple of weeks thought, well this isn't so bad - maybe the doctors were right. Then, oh my God, I'm so hot!!! Why is the bed soaked when I wake up every morning?  Arghh, my joints hurt and I've got a constant headache, and I can't think properly. And the Bitch Queen from Hell is back!  Plus, it's 25 degrees outside and I'm burning up from the inside too.  Sod this for a lark. I know my own body, I know my family history, and I've weighed up all the risks and benefits.

Now, Tridestra isn't licenced for use in Spain (France, Switzerland, Germany, yes but not Spain.) I considered the combi route but after reading of others' experiences here it seemed a bit hit and miss, I especially didn't fancy taking continuous prog. I'm prepared to put up with a period every three months, and I know Tridestra works for me.  Looking on the Tridestra packaging and using the net, I realised that I could put it together myself. Armed with the list of ingredients I called into the local pharmacy. The really helpful guy helped me source the Spanish brands of estradiol valerate and medroxyprogesterone and we put together the doses needed to make a 3 month pack of Tridestra. I took my first tablet last night (Thursday) and this morning woke (after a proper sleep) with a nice dry bed. I didn't think it would work that fast, but wow! And today instead of the 20 or so flushes, I've had three, and they were nowhere as severe as they have been.

I guess here in Spain we're lucky. Most medication is available over the counter (including the various brands of HRT but unfortunately not mine), the pharmacists are practically as knowledgable as the doctors regarding meds and very helpful with advice, especially with things like sore throats etc. - saves having to see a GP for e.g. an antibiotic which you know works for something you've had before. Of course I'm not advising passing over the GP, but I think you know when you need to see a doctor and when you really don't - if something minor lingers on naturally you head for the surgery! I'm registered with a GP here and the Spanish health service is superb, but - well, you ladies know the problems and frankly I don't fancy doing battle over the 60 years old thing again, this time in my limited Spanish. I will tell my GP what I'm taking next time I go, but it's good to know she can't keep them from me the way that the doctors in the UK do. By
So, that's my tale. Yes, I know it's against all the rules but I don't feel I'm ready to fade away into accepting the 'natural order' just yet. And I also think that the 60 limit is a bit arbitrary, surely we're all different? Hopefully soon, the rule-makers will have a re-think as the number of women like me grows larger, we feel better with HRT and they can't really give us a definitive reason to stop. Quality of life ladies, quality of life!

the way, it's very inexpensive to buy - a 30 pack of estradiol costs £2.30.
I either wanna be in one of two camps when I am over 60
The happy sprightly old chicks you see who are not on hrt, or the hapy ones who are
Nature never intended for women to live this long.
One GP at my surgery wants me off HRT by 55 because of the 'risks' which, now, if I am not mistaken, have found to be vanishingly small and that it is ok to give women hrt for life?
I might be mistaken though, we still might be Victorian and suffering and being forced off it, and havig hysterectomies and flushes and osteopporosis etc and suicide in worst case scenariois as women just cannot bear low down moods day in day out.

Anway Im glad you got sorted in Spain and still hope you are.

I think women who have long menopauses are rare, but I may be wrong.
I started at 42 and am 49 now, was thin for years, which apparently is a risk factor for long ones. sorry no source for that info.
I am still using hrt and plan on carrying on, but doc says its  not my choice.

Why do some women need testosterone?
Doesn't it deepen your voice and make you hairy?
Scuse my ignorance, I only learnt abotu meno when I realised I Was slap bang in middle of it.

I'm all for quality of life over quantity, but the need to keep people living in misery for long is fashionable at the moment, as man's best friend, pneumonia, is banished away with anti-b's instead of letting the poor incontinent, bedbound old soul on their way.

Struggling to get up and shower and no energy to do the things I love for the rest of my life versus HRT and energy to do things, but for a shorter time. No contest.

word, true

The NHS has deteriorated since. I had an operation in 2014, and most of the staff were originally from the far east, God only knows what I would have done without them. They were true angels, but, that was back in 2014, changes are happening so fast, the ground is moving under our feet.

The government want nurses who earn less than £35k to go home, yet here is there home

Then there is the jinior doctors having impossible impositions laid on them.

I know one thing,  I wont be wasting money on medical insurance. Look at the highest cause of bankruptcy in the US, unpaid medical bills, insurance companies, in the main will not pay up, policies are so full of holes they could be used as fishing nets.
I don't agree with allopathic medicine, although I do agree that women should be allowed oestrogen, now that we are kept alive as long as possible and far longer than nature intended.
Having said that, I took my hat off to the surgeon who releived me of a septal abscess, and gave me my sense of smell and taste back.

@sunchick, you posted that i could get hrt from pharmacy2u, they have a clause in their T&Cs number 18, where they say they

All NHS Prescription Services provided by Pharmacy2U are provided on a "best endeavours" basis. Requests made electronically from this website will be forwarded to your doctor as soon as possible.

I'm experimenting with trying a little extra evorel, just 25mg, as well as investigating other avenues.
I am not sure that my perimenopause has stepped up a notch and 100mcg,although a high dose, is not working for me  anymore. There are ladies who need more, some of them on a thread I started, and one on here who needs 6 pumps gel to stop flushes.

I was thinking of experimentingg with an extra 25mcg of evorel for five weeks, the time it took for the 100mcg to start working. I know, I couldnt believe I needed so much, tried  50,75 all for 3mths
stll nothing, was starting to believe my quality of life was about to go down permanetntly until poof, the 100mcg kicked in and I havent flushed since.
My groin area sweats now though as well, and this to me suggests not menopause, which is why I am conducting exeriments with meds and hormones.
In 5wks if i feel no diffferent, I will go back to 100mcg, but if i feel better, off to the doc i wll go, thanking heavens i dont need to increase my medication.

[Justjules]

My Mum's 90 year old friend is still on HRT!!! she takes a tablet 'every other day or so' she says. She's just come back from Las Vegas and travels back and forward to Spain all the time!

[CLKD]

If anyone tried to separate me from any of my AD medication I would threaten to kill myself  because I can't bear to feel that ill ever again  .  HRT should be prescribed accordingly for as long as a lady feels it necessary, after all other chronic condition medications aren't stopped!