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Menopause Matters magazine ISSUE 76 out now. (Summer issue, June 2024)

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Author Topic: From Diazepam to ?  (Read 12724 times)

coldethyl

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2016, 09:48:22 PM »

I'm shocked at reading that GPs are still over prescribing benzos. I watched my mum struggle with anxiety then struggle even more with the side effects of daily Valium use until she was hospitalised for withdrawal in my teens. My own GP gave me 16 when I first presented with acute anxiety as peri ramped up in 2014 and I still have 2 left as I was so reluctant to take them. When I was prescribed sertraline before Xmas and had a terrible reaction to it, the duty GP just wanted me to dose myself up on Valium to get me through it with seemingly no thought for the consequences of that action. There is a time and a place for such medication but I'd certainly not see it as a safe every day option. Far better to look into other medication  for anxiety and counselling /cbt.
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Dana

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2016, 03:54:22 AM »

The reality of benzodiazepines (of which diazepam/valium is just one) is that they should NEVER be used continuously for more than 2 weeks. Even the pharma companies are very open about this, but it's the doctors who ignore the warning and will often keep prescribing these highly addictive drugs for years on end. Tolerance to these drugs is also very high, and often times people who are taking really high doses started out on very low doses originally, but because the effect wears off they needed to keep increasing their dose to get the same effect. The other reality of benzo is that they don't "fix" anything. All they will ever do is mask the symptoms.

Tapering off a benzo should never be done quickly. "Cold turkey" or rapid tapers are very dangerous and can lead to life threatening problems. A slow and steady taper (sometimes even done as a daily liquid taper) is what is always recommended.

Also, people's sensitivity to benzos can vary enormously. Some people may have no problem tapering off a benzo, but other people who are highly sensitive will need to taper off over months or even years. There have never been any studies done (apart from what Prof Heather Ashton did years ago), but it is estimated that about 30% of the population has a high sensitivity to these drugs and will need to taper very slowly.

I know all this because I became dependent on diazepam, largely because of mismanaged menopause treatment, and it took me almost 2 years to taper off just 5mg of diazepam because I am one of the unlucky highly sensitive types. Also women often have a harder time tapering because hormones (particularly progesterone) don't play well with benzos, and of course a lot women are put on benzos because of hormones.

There are a lot of sites around that will offer advice on benzo tapering, but a lot of them aren't terribly helpful and I have heard of some very bad advice being given on a lot of them. I would personally keep away from all the facebook pages, because usually there is no one monitoring the information or advice they are giving.

IMO the best site available for benzo tapering is http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/. I used to be an "mentor" on that site, but I don't do it anymore because it just became too much for me, plus is it often difficult dealing with the mental issues of some when they are highly addicted, and not just on benzos. It also got too depressing, constantly seeing so many people joining every day suffering from benzo dependency.

Sadie - if you would like some personal advice on how you can tackle your problem I'm happy for you to send me a PM. Helping people with their diazepam problems was my specialty on BB for a long time. Tapering off your dose will not be that hard. It's entirely do-able and painless, provided you know the right way to do it.


« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 04:13:45 AM by Dana »
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babyjane

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2016, 01:30:48 PM »

I suffer with anxiety and take a low dose SSRI and a low dose BB.  I am reminded of my mother's sister, my aunt, who suffered badly with her 'nerves'.  I now think it was probably anxiety, maybe hormone related.  Anyway she was treated with Valium and other things, not sure what, and became more and more nervous so took more and more medication.  The upshot of this was that she started with Alzheimer's at age 58 and died age 62.  My mother was convinced it was all the medication she kept taking but the doctors just kept dosing her up.
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CLKD

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2016, 03:41:14 PM »

Valium:  It can be given from 5mg up to 30mg spaced through the day for 3-4 months if necessary.  It can also be given via a drip [IV] which I was unaware of but that is usually when someone has intense back spasm.  Some people have an 'addictive' personality apparently so I am lucky not to have become dependent. The last couple of Valium that I took (in the 1990s, 10mg with breakfast) on 2 separate occasions made my head really weird   ::)

My Dad was prescribed Ativan, a small blue pill given as a pre-med in many Hospitals but used daily in people with some mental disorders.  He had difficulty stopping it. 

I knew that Valium and now the current as-necessary drug works for me so I don't need to depend on it.  1mg (I think) is enough to calm me and then I'm OK for a couple of days.  Usually.
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Nell

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2016, 04:56:16 PM »

That's really interesting about benzos and progrsterones, Dana. The perfect storm  ::)

CLKD, 3-4 months? Is that based on your personal experience? It goes totally against the NHS prescribing guidelines issued by NICE/BNF:


"Important: benzodiazepine indications

Benzodiazepines are indicated for the short-term relief (two to four weeks only) of anxiety that is severe, disabling, or causing the patient unacceptable distress, occurring alone or in association with insomnia or short-term psychosomatic, organic, or psychotic illness.

The use of benzodiazepines to treat short-term ‘mild' anxiety is inappropriate.

Benzodiazepines should be used to treat insomnia only when it is severe, disabling, or causing the patient extreme distress."

from https://www.evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/bnf/current/4-central-nervous-system/41-hypnotics-and-anxiolytics#PHP2097
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Nell

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2016, 05:06:09 PM »

Meant to post two more helpful websites for you, Sadie

http://www.btpinfo.org.uk

http://www.benzo.org.uk/support.htm - you might find a source of help local to you on here.
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CLKD

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2016, 09:06:30 PM »

Strange that I read that on the NICE Guidelines last night  :-\ and nope, not my personal experience though my GP has never denied me emergency medication.  The consequences would be dire  :'(
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Dana

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2016, 11:21:06 PM »

Valium:  It can be given from 5mg up to 30mg spaced through the day for 3-4 months if necessary.  It can also be given via a drip [IV] which I was unaware of but that is usually when someone has intense back spasm.  Some people have an 'addictive' personality apparently so I am lucky not to have become dependent. The last couple of Valium that I took (in the 1990s, 10mg with breakfast) on 2 separate occasions made my head really weird   ::)

Sorry, but this is completely incorrect information. Even pharma companies would not advocate benzos being used this way, and they're the ones making money out of them. I've known of people who have become dependent after just a few weeks. 3-4 months is far too long to be taking a benzo continuously. Unfortunately though it's some doctors who prescribe irresponsibly.

Also becoming dependent on a benzo (addicted is not the correct word to use) has nothing to do with having an addictive personality. I would have the least addictive personality going (never smoked or used drugs and I rarely drink because I hate the thought of something 'controlling' me), yet I became dependent valium.


Quote
I knew that Valium and now the current as-necessary drug works for me so I don't need to depend on it.  1mg (I think) is enough to calm me and then I'm OK for a couple of days.  Usually.

Like I said in my earlier post, not everyone will have problems with a benzo, but no one will know if they have a severe sensitivity to them until it's too late and they've become dependent. You are probably one of the lucky ones who didn't have that problem. Having said that, sensitivities can change. There is a thing called "kindling" where each time a person starts and stops a benzo it can become harder and harder to get off them. Please don't let that happen to you. Taking one every so often can be okay, but never start taking them continuously. It can seriously become a very slippery slope.
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CLKD

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2016, 08:41:07 AM »

I wasn't trying to be confrontational  :-\ as I don't have the energy - I post what I see, I tell the truth and what I posted was from the NICE Guidelines - of course, there weren't any dates as to that particular advice  ::).  I know a friend who was given Valium IV for extreme back spasm in 2001 - (spoke to him this morning) ……. he was hooked up for 3 days in Hospital.

I drop by on the Forum to offer support and if any of my experiences or advice can be taken on board then that's fine, if people don't think what I suggest is for them, that's fine. 
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Nell

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2016, 08:42:42 AM »

Agree so much with your post, Dana.
One GP said to me 'take what you need for now, don't worry, you don't have an addictive personality'. Ahahaha! Next, better informed, GP said when it comes to benzos it has nothing to do with an 'addictive personality' it's a physical dependency.

Do you have a link for that from NICE, CLKD?
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CLKD

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2016, 08:43:26 AM »

Nope.
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Sadie49

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2016, 06:38:07 PM »

Ladies, thanks so much for taking the time to source info etc. Nell, I checked out the links but to be honest, the thought of reading/sharing all that drama would induce me to take another one! lol!

In one way I am confident that at a comparatively low dose it won't be too scary but on the other hand I fear hitting a brick wall and not having the necessary meds/advice to help.

I am SO thankful for this forum though! Each piece of advice is like a hug and for me, that is very rare!

I will chart the next week and see just when and why I pop a pill so that I have something to go on for reduction. I know the biggest hurdle will be between my ears and once that is accomplished I will be on the winning lap!

Lots of hugs,

xxxx
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Dana

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2016, 09:33:20 PM »

I wasn't trying to be confrontational  :-\ as I don't have the energy - I post what I see, I tell the truth and what I posted was from the NICE Guidelines - of course, there weren't any dates as to that particular advice  ::).  I know a friend who was given Valium IV for extreme back spasm in 2001 - (spoke to him this morning) ……. he was hooked up for 3 days in Hospital.

I drop by on the Forum to offer support and if any of my experiences or advice can be taken on board then that's fine, if people don't think what I suggest is for them, that's fine. 


I don't want to be confrontational either, but I honestly couldn't let your comments go without responding because what you have said is just completely wrong. btw - I wasn't commenting on the IV information. Yes it can be given by IV, but only in extreme circumstances and only in hospital.

The comment I was referring to was when you said "It can be given from 5mg up to 30mg spaced through the day for 3-4 months if necessary". I have never seen that information being given by any legitimate source ever, and I would love to see the source where you got that information. No one should ever be told it's okay to take valium continuously for 3-4 months. That amount of time was all it took for me to become severely dependent, and then it took me nearly 2 years to taper off it. Even 3-4 weeks could be very dodgy for a lot of people. Perhaps you are mistaken and what you actually read was "3-4 weeks", because that is the standard advice.

Also, your "addictive personality" comment was somewhat demeaning to the millions of people who become unwittingly dependent through no fault of their own, and purely because of doctors who lack appropriate knowledge. Benzo dependency has nothing to do with what kind of personality you have. It's a physical thing because the drug affects the GABA receptors in the brain. It is also totally different to an "addiction" where someone has a craving for a drug like alcohol, illicit drugs, tobacco etc. Comments like that only put these people into the same category as "druggies", when it's really the doctors who should be held accountable for their actions.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 10:03:35 PM by Dana »
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Nell

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2016, 10:16:59 AM »

Ladies, thanks so much for taking the time to source info etc. Nell, I checked out the links but to be honest, the thought of reading/sharing all that drama would induce me to take another one! lol!

In one way I am confident that at a comparatively low dose it won't be too scary but on the other hand I fear hitting a brick wall and not having the necessary meds/advice to help.

Hi Sadie,
I couldn't cope with a benzo forum either, other people's stories were just too much for me too! (Although I appreciate they do sterling work.)
But http://www.btpinfo.org.uk/ is just very measured information, including coping techniques and info for family/friends/your GP. You can also ring them.
And http://www.benzo.org.uk/support.htm is just a one page list in case there is some actual 'real life' help local to you.
The other site I mentioned http://www.recovery-road.org/ has some good, calm info on it. You can simply avoid the Stories tab.
Anyway, those sites are there for you when you feel like a bit of reading.

Definitely don't feel rushed to start a withdrawal before you have a good understanding of how things work. Your GP should never rush or pressurise you. But be aware lots of them are very unaware of how slow you may need to take it.

If you have been varying your dose a lot, as I had, you may need to stabilise on a daily dose before trying to withdraw. My GP looked at how much I had been prescribed over the previous 6 months and worked out a suitable stabilisation dose. Cutting out the variation in dose was essential as at least then your brain is getting the same each day rather than fluctuating.
x x
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Vanessa1

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Re: From Diazepam to ?
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2016, 10:36:12 AM »

My mum suffered terrible with anxiety and depression and I'm afraid I am now taking after her;  as I said on a previous thread I've been taking HRT for 6 months and due to a recent unexpected bereavement I've been prescribed Sertraline.  Never taken an AD before but feeling emotionally crippled at the moment so giving it a go.  Regarding this thread;  I've been taking Diazepam (Valium) off and on for the last 30 years;  I went for years without it, but my GP now gives me a 28 day supply of 5 mg as he knows I use them sensibly and only when needed (I take 1-2 per week on my 'bad' days) every few months.  It makes me wonder why people are so worried about taking it in the UK, as in countries like France and Holland you can buy them over the counter in Boots the Chemist!  Diazepam is a muscle relaxant and a mild sedative (as far as I am aware) yet GPs are willing to give out mind altering drugs like ADs like sweets.
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