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[CLKD]

Dangermouse - good comments.  Separate thread maybe?

Most medications that we take are synthesised.  Herbalists etc. found those herbs/flowers/roots etc. that eased many symptoms, chemists went to work so that more people could benefit and hey presto! we have a World Wide Pharmaceutical industry that has, in the main, kept me alive  .  Never having done any chemistry I don't understand how it works, however, Himself read Chemistry at Uni. so will get Papers and interpret them if necessary. 

It amazes me how food stuffs, liquids, medications etc. can affect people so differently.  Which is why it is important to be open with our GPs/therapists in order to get the most out of the 'system'.  When I get irritated with the NHS I remember that even in the 21st Centry, there are peoples without access to fresh water, medication etc. >sigh<

How are you Matildamouse >wave< …….. browse round, make notes!

[dangermouse]

Yes, sorry was just referring to NHS or private counsellors and psychotherapists. Products are a whole different story.

NICE is very restrictive and when I was training with the Priory therapists we weren't allowed to technically do hypnotherapy, but we could do it if we called it 'meditation' . I understand they have to have their strict guidelines though, I just don't want to be part of that. So it's just to say that NHS isn't necessarily a stamp of quality.

Alternative practices like crystal healing and Reiki are not my thing but some people do get results. Who knows if its placebo but then 50% of paracetamol is, so if it helps someone then all good, but yes it's fair for everyone here to share their views and then you get a balanced argument. I'm sure no-one means any offence, sometimes we can just get passionate when our views are strong!

We are a bunch of 'hormonal women' after all - haha! x

[CLKD]

Nowt wrong with the placebo effect!  what ever works as long as it isn't dangerous!  Having suffered severe side-effects from some medications I am pleased that I trust my GP enough to go back to discuss …….. we now have a working relationship, the same with our Dentist ……… and at my age, I am brazen enough to say "I want more info." etc..

[Kate50]

I think you need to re read it Hurdity. She hasn't been back on yet to defend herself. Calling treatments done by people not rubberstamped by the NHS quacks is like something out the dark ages. We all have our own minds and don't believe something is right just because the NHS says so. Most of you on here come on here moaning about doctors and the way they work anyway. Aren't they governed by the NHS. I actually believe in the NHS and joined this sight to gain the wealth of information most of the ladies have on here and not to be told that unless it's NHS approved it doesn't count.  That's not freedom of speech.  Give some compassion not just facts and figures who needs those that's why no one likes going to the doctors!

[matildamouse]

Thanks for all the replies ladies.

As I told the naturopath " I did not just jump on HRT"...I went through all the possible OTC menopause treatments like black cohosh, red clover, some chines herbs, flaxseed, evening primrose oil etc etc. Made all the lifestyle and diet changes beforehand already. Doing exercise, eating healthy and yoga etc. So I am sceptical myself about what else can be in his potion to make THE difference. I have not taken anything of that yet except his bowel potion which works VERY well!

My question now is...if the saliva and blood tests can be trusted which all show very elevated estradiol and progesterone levels, I must surely have symptoms of that, should I not? I actually feel quite settled at the moment on 25mg Estradot patch and 100mg Progesterone. I get the occasional hot flash especially just before the change of the patch but that can be expected...?

I am in Australia so no NHS here. Also no Utrogestan. I have to make best of what is available here (only a handful of very fully booked GP's who will prescribe progesterone which is then only available from a compounding pharmacy).I will look into Dana's suggestions as I am motivated to give my body the best possible option while I am trying to survive this rollercoaster ride. Thanks for that Dana.

[Dana]

Thanks for all the replies ladies.

As I told the naturopath " I did not just jump on HRT"...I went through all the possible OTC menopause treatments like black cohosh, red clover, some chines herbs, flaxseed, evening primrose oil etc etc. Made all the lifestyle and diet changes beforehand already. Doing exercise, eating healthy and yoga etc. So I am sceptical myself about what else can be in his potion to make THE difference. I have not taken anything of that yet except his bowel potion which works VERY well!

I know only too well the potion you are talking about. It's lethal. I had to stop taking it after about 5 days. The whole theory behind these treatments they give, and "estrogen metabolism", is that they are trying to "rid" your body of the evil estrogen, which is the most ridiculous thing ever because us meno ladies need all the estrogen we can get. They seem to think estrogen is the bad guy.

My question now is...if the saliva and blood tests can be trusted which all show very elevated estradiol and progesterone levels, I must surely have symptoms of that, should I not? I actually feel quite settled at the moment on 25mg Estradot patch and 100mg Progesterone. I get the occasional hot flash especially just before the change of the patch but that can be expected...?

I would personally forget what the numbers are saying. Go by your symptoms, and if you are starting to feel better on 25mcg, then stick with that and see how you go. I don't get any increase of symptoms around the time of the patch change, so maybe the 25mcg might not be enough. Maybe you might need to try the 37.5mcg patch, but see how things go over the next few weeks. The next one up from that is then 50 mcg (medium dose), but you might not need to go to that just yet. 

I am in Australia so no NHS here. Also no Utrogestan. I have to make best of what is available here (only a handful of very fully booked GP's who will prescribe progesterone which is then only available from a compounding pharmacy).I will look into Dana's suggestions as I am motivated to give my body the best possible option while I am trying to survive this rollercoaster ride. Thanks for that Dana.

No worries, but you do have to keep remembering that the compounded progesterone has not be proven to fully protect the uterus. Apart from the lack of availability of Utrogestan (which many women don't use anyway), the medical care we get from GPs, Medicare and PBS in Australia IMO is better than anywhere else in the world. You don't need special doctors or clinics to be treated for menopause here. Just a regular doctor, a regular prescription pad and a regular chemist is all that's needed.

Also, HRT is very cheap thanks to PBS. That's why I get really annoyed by the cons inflicted on women by the compound industry. That stuff can cost $100+ a month which is ridiculous. A packet of Estradot patches and a packet of Provera cost about $14-15 each and the Provera lasts for months because you get 56 tablets. Even if you bought the Utrogestan online it would still be much cheaper than the compounded hormones, and I think you get 30 Utrogestan capsules so that would probably last a couple of months if you used it vaginally.

[Dana]

I would never have sorted any of my issues out with therapists that were part of the NHS im not sure if there is any and if there are you would be waiting 10 years to see them. I agree with the need for HRT for the menopause but I suffer with no anxiety or depression due to these so called quacks!

This poor woman came on here openly to share and ask questions and she seems to have been shot down in flames.  Shame on you!

That's a very unfair comment Kate. No one has shot anyone down in flames. Speaking for myself, the information I give people is pretty nearly always based on my own experiences, and I have a lot of experience with being treated by a naturopath for menopause (3 months cost me $3000 and my life was worse afterwards). I also have experience being treated for menopause with compounded hormones. Fortunately I only used them for a couple of months before I found out what a con they are.

We have been talking predominately about menopause and HRT. If you have found that alternate practitioners have helped with your anxiety and depression that's great, but there is actually a big difference between the way menopause and anxiety/depression are treated. Often times anxiety and depression are better treated without medication, and many doctors prefer to treat it that way anyway, so alternate practitioners aren't special in that regard.

[matildamouse]

Maybe you might need to try the 37.5mcg patch, but see how things go over the next few weeks. The next one up from that is then 50 mcg (medium dose), but you might not need to go to that just yet. 

Thanks for that. I forgot it comes in 37.5mg as well. Good suggestion to keep in mind.

Also, HRT is very cheap thanks to PBS. That's why I get really annoyed by the cons inflicted on women by the compound industry. That stuff can cost $100+ a month which is ridiculous. A packet of Estradot patches and a packet of Provera cost about $14-15 each and the Provera lasts for months because you get 56 tablets. Even if you bought the Utrogestan online it would still be much cheaper than the compounded hormones, and I think you get 30 Utrogestan capsules so that would probably last a couple of months if you used it vaginally.
[/quote]

How do you find the Provera? And how do you use it? Continuous or cycling with a bleed? I was trying to stay away from the progestins as I had a very bad reaction to another progestin, hence the search for the most natural progesterone. If I am really stuck, I might consider Femoston as a last alternative.

[matildamouse]

Sorry Dana struggling getting the quotes right

[dangermouse]

My sister lives in Australia and I would much prefer their Medicare/PBS system to our NHS one.

I think because it's seen as free (despite the taxes we pay and prescription charges), it's often provided with the attitude that we should like it or lump it and not have the audacity to complain. I suspect how a lot of people on benefits are made to feel.

If I go to an NHS GP I feel like I'm back at school being lectured to, where with a private doctor I feel like a respected client. However, our health insurance deals are so restrictive for what you pay, so you end up stuck with no choice but to use the free'ish service where a lot of fobbing off goes on due to the lack of funds. I'm sure most would prefer to contribute a little more if we had a better service and shorter waiting times.

[CLKD]

At least we have choice! unlike those in War torn countries 

Sorry, maudlin ………

The body 'rids' itself of most toxins, that is what it is designed to do, it rarely requires any help unless 1 is constipated.  The whole body system fascinates me  and I wish sometimes that we were see-through so that I could watch where everything I eat/drink goes ……. how long it remains in the stomach/kidneys/liver etc.; maybe not  . 

[Hurdity]

My sister lives in Australia and I would much prefer their Medicare/PBS system to our NHS one.

I think because it's seen as free (despite the taxes we pay and prescription charges), it's often provided with the attitude that we should like it or lump it and not have the audacity to complain. I suspect how a lot of people on benefits are made to feel.

If I go to an NHS GP I feel like I'm back at school being lectured to, where with a private doctor I feel like a respected client. However, our health insurance deals are so restrictive for what you pay, so you end up stuck with no choice but to use the free'ish service where a lot of fobbing off goes on due to the lack of funds. I'm sure most would prefer to contribute a little more if we had a better service and shorter waiting times.

Of course the NHS needs more funds - but that is partly down to where the government chooses to spend the money as well as a question of taxes - look at how low they are in this country - it's ridiculous!!!  I agree we could contribute more (according to our means) and have a better system.

However I do not feel like that at my GP surgery (ie being fobbed off and lectured at) - as always some are better than others as with all people. I know funds are short and we have to push for our rights sometimes, and the system is not perfect - but it is "free" and amazing that it is so. I hope that people who are unfortunate enough to need benefits to live are treated on NHS in the same way as everyone else.

Hurdity x

[babyjane]

I have never been fobbed off or lectured to.  My GP treats me with respect and speaks to me as an equal.  In fact I was concerned recently to discover that one of my essential medications is actually quite expensive and I told him I was concerned.  He went out of his way to reassure me, saying that it was not my fault and generally I do not cost the surgery budget more than I need to and mustn't upset myself about it.

[dangermouse]

Hmmm, I'm tempted to give up the same day appointment convenience and move surgeries then. We had a rude and dismissive GP when I was a child and at the place I am at now, almost all of the 30 GPs come across as disinterested and unmotivated - they also seem very fed up with their jobs. I saw one GP who was much more on the ball, but even when I tried to book to see him well in advance, on the day they had switched me to someone else. 

When I worked for a large company we had private GPs onsite and they were so helpful and passionate about their work, it was a whole different experience. I also know of many family members who avoid the doctors because they are made to feel a nuisance. My aunt's GP refused to even speak to her once. She declined Warfarin as it had caused her sister to have a stroke, and as she hadn't taken his advice he decided to just ignore her whilst she sat there trying to talk to him, so she had to get up and leave in the end!

I did read some of the Google reviews on some of the other surgeries, none looked very promising but maybe I should try all the same if some of you have more affable GPs. Perhaps some surgeries are more pleasant to work for than others which is then reflected in their attitude. Continuity would also be nice which you never get at a large practice.

[CLKD]

30 GPs in one Surgery  ………. in the UK?  No wonder their morale is low!

As for private GPs in industry, they will be paid for the value, wont' have on-call hours nor have to do any surgery  .  I believe that UK Companies who employ over 200 people have to have a full-time daily Nurse and a GP who visits every month.

Could you speak to a Pharmacist to see who supports HRT etc. in your area?