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[Lizab]

My symptoms were an overall not feeling well, hot flashes, inability to concentrate on anything, not sleeping well, extreme emotions, crying over everything happy and sad, extreme and sudden fatigue, apathy, lack of motivation, anxiety, a jelly leg feeling, dizzy spells but not spinning vertigo, heat intolerance, joint aches, waking startled, a racing heart feeling. I really felt terrible and couldn't put my finger on what was wrong. In the first 3 months on the lower dose, I was like a rollercoaster. I felt like my old self some days and felt awful on other days. I did get relief on the lower dose in less frequent hot flashes, not waking startled, and the joint pains and weak leg feelings subsided, and the heart racing stopped. Also the dizzy head feelings were less frequent. If you see any of my old posts you'll see that I debated going on a higher dose because I did find some relief, but I still felt crazy, so I went for the higher dose. At this point, I'm still battling a hot flash now and then and anxiety, and very rarely I get a little flip flop feeling heart palp. My main improvement since increasing has been in motivation and energy and more stable emotions, although I still have times where I get teary-eyed over silly things. Understand the emotional part is very much out of character for me, so it has been a shock to me. Well, all of it has been a shock. Basically, before I couldn't cope with life and felt stressed about not coping. On too low a dose, I felt fine intermittently, but I couldn't predict when I would suddenly feel awful. And on the higher dose, I cope better in general. For the most part, if I'm having an off time with lower energy, I can rationally recognize what's going on and either push myself through it or accept that I need to rest for a few. It all seems simple and obvious when I type it, but I was really losing it before the estrogen.

[Mary G]

Sorry, I gave you the dialling code from Europe, from the US it is (011 44) 207 486 0497.  I've literally just phoned Professor Studd's office again and both his secretaries are taking calls but they are very busy. 

Try to get through to Professor Studd as soon as you can but if all else fails, I would recommend you simply use his tried an tested regime of 3 pumps oestrogel everyday and 100mg Utrogestan (vaginally) each month.  I really think this is the best advice I can give you.

Re progesterone intolerance, how do you feel when you take progesterone?  Do you feel significantly better when you take oestrogen only?  Again, the only way to find out is by trial and error.

[Lizab]

Let me add to Mary G's comment about intolerance. Don't be afraid of it. If you've had problems with hormonal birth control in the past, then you may have reason to be cautious, but even then, bodies change  and you won't certainly have problems with it. Lots of women do absolutely fine on progesterone or even synthetic progestins. That said, if you're being hyper-aware, the normal side effects may scare you. Prometrium/Utrogestan can have a sedative like effect. A dizzy drowsy feeling is not intolerance. My first course of Prometrium I did have some other side effects but those went away after 2 or 3 days of it. Women with intolerance I believe get such debilitating effects form the progesterone they can not take it. You'll likely feel something from the progesterone, that doesn't necessarily mean intolerance.

[Cassie]

I would start with 2 pumps of the gel you need it every single day not just when you get a hot flash, that is really silly advice. Rub it into your legs alternating legs @ night when you are in bed it soaks in within 2 mins...
You will need a progesterone taken for a certain number of days per month. I would go with 12 days to start with say from the 15th of each mth through to the 26th. Stop the Progesterone and see if you get a bleed after a few days. If you do not, then the Progesterone is clearly not strong enough and you will need to either get a stronger dose or I would ask your Dr to prescribe Utrogestan which is a tablet the 100mg used vaginally just pop one in 12 days of the mth, you can also use them orally. This regime suits many many women and can be life changing but you most certainly do need oestrogen. All the best.

[DEETLE]

 Try to get through to Professor Studd as soon as you can but if all else fails, I would recommend you simply use his tried an tested regime of 3 pumps oestrogel everyday and 100mg Utrogestan (vaginally) each month.  I really think this is the best advice I can give you.


MARY- ok...   Do i start immediately on 3 pumps or work my way up over a few weeks or days??  also are you saying 100mg Utrogestan (vaginally) each month EVERYDAY?? OR 12 DAYS PER MONTH?   sorry all the questions, Im just really wanting to get this right..  thank you ALL

[DEETLE]

"Women with intolerance I believe get such debilitating effects form the progesterone they can not take it. "

Lizab  - ok so if they get debilitating effects from the progesterone and can not take it.. do they just take the estrogen ONLY??   can that be dangerous?   thank you ALL for helping me

[DEETLE]

Cassie and Mary -  Thank you both for helping me with the dose of ESTROGel..  can either of you tell me what I want my blood levels to get to??  or does that even matter??   My doctor said he would test my blood every 3 months (which I asked for) and currently my estradiol was   117  and reference range is  0  to  357..  based on this my doctor said my level was fine???   but obviously I have symptoms?   do the blood levels really not matter?

additionally, I remember my doctor saying that there was another kind of estrogen they tested in my blood and that I was very high in this one (he said "you are very high in the BAD estrogen for some reason")  what is this other estrogen?   

[Mary G]

DEETLE, why not just start with the tried and tested Professor Studd regime which is three pumps of gel everyday (you could split the dose by 12 hours as I suggested on my other post) and then take 100mg Utrogestan vaginally for 7 days only each month.  Professor Studd always suggests you take the Utrogestan on the 1st of every month for 7 days to make it easy to remember. 

to recap, use the gel everyday from now on and if you have only just had a period, you can leave the Utrogestan for a while in order to get a good dose of oestrogen into your system.

Once you start the Utrogestan phase, you will know how well you cope with progesterone.

You obviously have private health insurance so you can take the lowest dose of Utrogestan (i.e. Professor Studd's 7 day dose) and then have a uterine scan every year to check that your womb lining is clearing adequately.  This amount of progesterone is enough for me even though I take a high dose of oestrogen and most women are OK on this amount of progesterone.  I am severely intolerant to synthetic progestins and high doses of Utrogestan so there is no question of me ever taking more than Studd's dose.

Re oestrogen blood levels, mine ranges from about 180 to 235 pg/ML which works very well and I feel completely normal on this range so I will stick with it.  It might be too high on paper but anything below about 130 is a waste of time for me.  Never heard of good v. bad oestrogen, this reading is for 17-BETA estradial.   

In a nutshell, you have to find what you feel good on and stick with it!  Be prepared for it to take a while to find the right regime.

[DEETLE]

I just hung up with the pharmacy and they said they don't know of PROMETRIUM (I'm in US). He thought that maybe it was just progesterone in a peanut oil??  Is there another name for it?

[Cassie]

Yes it is progesterone in a peanut oil known as Utrogestan or Prometrium....

[Cassie]

When I had my last blood test the Oestrogen, if I remember correctly it was marked as E2 on the lab report was around the 600 mark on that level I had no symptoms, it is now down to 300 something as I am just over the 50 yr mark but I am still not having many symptoms so am thinking we are on the right track.
Regarding the so called Bad Estrogen, I do remember at one stage when I consulted a pharmacist who specialised in Bio Identical Hormones that there are 3 types of Estrogen and one is considered not so friendly, however the one that is generally prescribed in the gels and HRT is a so called good one, I would not worry too much about the nitty gritty some of these specialists tend to get in way too deep, keep it simple, use the gel and the cyclical Utrogestan 100mg x 12 days per mth and you  should feel 100% better.

[DEETLE]

Yes it is progesterone in a peanut oil known as Utrogestan or Prometrium....

1   -   What if I am allergic to peanut oil?  is there something else I can ask them to use?  I would like the suppositories idea but not sure what to tell them to make it with?   THANK YOU ALL

2   -   Lastly, I've talked with my doctor in detail this morning about everything I've learned here..  thank goodness he is somewhat willing to work with me (actually I may be educating him based on all of you here helping me with knowledge) but he is set on me staying on the progesterone part continually, no breaks,  100 mg daily...   is that ok??

[Lizab]

I can't believe your pharmacist doesn't know of Prometrium. It is the brand name for the drug. The generic is something like micronized progesterone. It isn't made in the pharmacy. It is manufactured  and it is like pills full of peanut oil, similar to fish oil vitamins. I'm not aware of any alternative formulations without peanut oil, other than synthetic progestin. I would question even if the cream from your compounding pharmacy has peanut oil in it, if I had an allergy.

[Cassie]

Why would you be allergic to peanut oil, surely you would know you were by now.... Order it you will be fine.... you can stay on it every day but I prefer just 12 days a mth as it has side effects and I enjoy my sleep, it keeps me awake....

[Trufflecat]

You might need to ask for Micronised Progesterone..... Utrogestan is also known as that.

It is madness to suggest that you use oestrogel only if you have a hot flush! The idea is to get your level up to a point where you don't have flushes.

Good luck