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[dangermouse]

I've been told that you feel better post menopause due to the higher ratio of testosterone to oestrogen, more energy and drive being the main boost, but then there are clearly lots of women on here who prefer to stay on HRT indefinitely suggesting that's not the case.

Are you able to allow your hormones to switch to post meno and then go back on HRT if it doesn't suit you or do you just have to make a decision either way and stick with it?

I do like the idea of the higher energy testosterone state but also don't want to put myself at risk of heart disease too early so wondered how others work it out.

[Hurdity]

I'm not sure what you mean dangermouse by "allowing your hormones to swtich to post-meno"? Do you mean stop and start HRT? If you stop HRT and are post-meno then your oestrogen levels will fall and you will risk all the health problems due to its deficiency. Not sure what you've been reading that makes you think it would be a good thing? We are women remember - and high oestrogen is our functioning state!

I'm not sure where you read that about feeling better post-meno due to the higher ration of T to O - how can that be? We feel at our best during our fertile years when oestrogen is high and testosterone is normal.

Oestrogen declines drastically until it sinks to an all time low from approx 2 years post-menopause. Testosterone gradually declines throughout life from maturity onwards. It is the absolute values of oestrogen and testosterone that determine how we feel in terms of energy, drive etc - not the relative amounts. If your oestrogen and testosterone levels have both declined then you will feel less energetic and have less drive.

After menopause it is the case at least initially that oestrogen falls dramatically so that you become more testosterone dominant - hence the change in shape to apple, and the hairy chins some women complain about. However the T is still  lower than it was and continues to decline.

Also there is some inter-conversion between O and T but I am not certain of all the controlling factors.

The main aim of T replacement is to try to achieve physiological levels (for women) without becoming too T dominant and risk the androgenic side effects. In my case I have been replacing oestrogen for 9 years (I am almost 63) and Testosterone for almost 12 months. I use a tiny blob of testosterone - for the reason that I do not want to become T dominant and risk the male side effects. I don't increase my oestrogen because I don't ewant to take progesterone more often than I do ( every two months) - and it's sufficient to keep away flushes and sweats.

I only started using HRT when I was late peri-menopause.

Hurdity x

[dangermouse]

Thanks! Well my mum didn't have a bad perimenopause like I'm having but she said she felt alot better post meno and my sisters neighbours have said the same thing. They're all very active and it exhausts me just watching them! However, I guess as you say that initial boost will decline so maybe the energy is short lived. My mum does also now have osteoarthritis (she's 73) - although still more active than me of late!

On the other side, my aunt said she felt better on HRT but was made to stop it (when they had that 5 year rule).

I wasn't sure if once you'd let your oestrogen levels naturally fall and the testosterone rise, by not having or stopping HRT, whether you could take it later on or if there was a cut off if you let it slip too long.

[blossom60]

I certainly feel much, much better post meno.  My last two years of peri were pretty bad but as I have never taken HRT I can't comment on how that makes anyone feel.

What I would say though is that there is an awful lot of women out there that don't take HRT and I have seen no evidence that they are disadvantaged by not taking it (post meno wise).

It would be interesting to read any evidence, both research and individual experience, if there is any.

[CLKD]

I have been lucky in that my menopause has taken what I consider to be the 'normal' route, i.e. I went through less and less bleeds as oestrogen dropped off: a few years where itchiness was problematic but not over-so; only a few months of flushing.  Having suffered horrendous periods for years I was relieved when it all stopped.

I have days when I feel more tired but don't know how much that is menopause or a combination of my medication.  On the days I am good we do a lot, others we chill ………

If you have a good day/week go with it  .  "ours is not to reason why" ?

[Pollie]

Hi Hurdity

Oestrogen declines drastically until it sinks to an all time low from approx 2 years post-menopause

This interests me - where is the oestrogen coming from after menopause (last period) ?

Do the ovaries still produce oestrogen even though we are not ovulating or having periods ?

Presumably it is not enough to stimulate the lining ...

pollie

[blossom60]

My personal observation (family, friends and colleagues) is that an awful lot of women not taking HRT end up on some form of anti-anxiety medication and are often also being treated separately for VA, osteoporosis etc. Fair enough if they're not able to take HRT ... but if they can ... I do question why they wouldn't at least want to try it??

Don't know that I can agree with this??

If Oestrogen were essential to prevent anxiety then why do men not suffer all through their lives.  Also many take ADs well before the meno or even peri.

As for VA and osteoporosis, I can only speak for myself and family here but we have not had these problems dispite no HRT.

There are 3 reasons why women don't take HRT.
1st, they cannot.
2nd, they don't want to, for various reasons.
3rd, they just don't need to.

I don't think we should question anyone's reasons for not taking HRT, it's their choice.

[dogdoc]

Blossom60....it does my heart good to read that you feel better post meno. I'd love to see an uplifting thread in the forum ( maybe even a sticky) for women who had rough or even normal perimenopause who came out the other side and are feeling good.

I'm still in peri and now feeling much better but for several YEARS all I wanted to do was hear from women who turned out OK. I didn't think I was going to make it, and it might all come back again as I'm not through it yet.
 I think a lot of the women on this site who are peri want the same thing. To know there's life after perimenopause.

t

[Taz2]

Men do have oestrogen. If they don't have enough they lose their libido and put on weight... sound familiar?    I'm not sure what role it plays in male anxiety though.

It is good to hear of a happy post meno story. As for VA my mum didn't begin to have problems until she hit her late sixties and began oestrogen treatment. The same has happened to a couple of friend's mums who began to develop cystitis type symptoms in their early seventies and, due to both having up to date GP's, were prescribed topical oestrogen which cured the problem. I believe that some women's levels drop quicker than others so some of us have problems from our fifties and others not until they are quite a lot older.

Positive Post-meno experiences would be very welcome. Have we had a thread on that already?

Taz x

[CLKD]

Often those that feel better go away from the Forum 

Maybe ladies don't talk about VA etc.?  Certainly it isn't a conversation I would have with anyone outside of the Forum, my GP and DH!  Even if a lady doesn't have flushing etc., they may well have other symptoms that require medication outside of HRT.  I was taking ADs and BBs years before I went into peri.

[CLKD]

Maybe because their depression isn't meno-related?  I had depression and bad anxiety years before peri.  Of course, we mustn't forget that GPs often reached for ADs because that's how the patient presented in Surgery - in tears, unable to cope - so knowing that ADs can help, a prescription was offered.  Also, ADs can help some menopausal symptoms 

Once ladies have gone through peri and their meno-symptoms have settled, they should be able to get on with Life with less and less problems.  How long is a piece of string, it can be different for each one of us.  I have better days and those when I am really tired, for a combination of reasons - I have learnt not to plan too far ahead nor say 'yes' too often ……. that way I don't tire myself out by finding reasons to back out of the 'yes' situation  .

[blossom60]

I agree with much of what you say, Stellajane.

I think many women are put off HRT because it seem such a complicated process.  You only have to read the post on this forum to see that.

Also for a lot of women ADs are just short term, and can be for many reason such a life changes and bereavement.

There certainly isn't a 'one size fits all' with the meno.

[CLKD]

So true.  That's why it is so difficult to decide on what treatment may be required.  At a time when a  lady already feels ill it is so hard to make ourselves clear about symptoms and how badly they affect us!

[Mary G]

The fact that I am 54 and feel roughly the same as I did at 30 is reason enough for me to be an HRT lifer.  It's taken me a very long time to find the right medication and get the combination of oestrogen/progesterone right but I have finally arrived and really hope I can help other women on here.  If I can feel as good as this then others can too.

If someone doesn't want to take HRT for any number of reasons and they are sure they are happy with that decision then fine.  The real problem that comes across loud and clear on this forum is the dreadful way in which so many women seem to suffer from life ruining symptoms, have a doctor who knows nothing about HRT and then prescribes duff medication i.e. outdated forms of HRT.  Also, too many women are put on ADs etc. when they really need hormones.

Men produce sex hormones all their lives and women don't which, in my opinion, is a fault in the female make up.  Oestrogen is like a control centre for so many vital functions and without it, things start to go wrong.  My mother didn't have troublesome menopause symptoms but has suffered with endless problems related to oestrogen deprivation in later life.  I look at old photos of my aunt who completely lost her zest for life around the menopause and her depression comes across in the photos.  She ended up frail by the age of 57 and, sadly, died of a stroke which was devastating for us. 

I worry for women who are not getting the right advice or treatment and from what I can see, it's not getting any better.

[CLKD]

We need dedicated GP training for menopause!  We need more leaflets in GP Surgeries?