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[catlike]

So I went to see my GP lady and she has suggested I try the Fem7 conti patches, as I was having dreadful energy drops and depression after stopping the utro sequentially with estrogel- with or without a bleed.

I've got my first patch on and am feeling super tired! Anyone else on fem7 conti- is this a common reaction?  How long before one can tell if the patch is kicking in? I know i have to give it at least a month... but am missing the boost from the estrogel- even though it didn't always boost me!

My doc did say I could add on another half a patch- but have realized that if i do this i will also be increasing the prog element too. That doesn't sound like a good plan to me. Maybe i should try a bit of estrogel later and see how I feel with that as an add in?

[Dancinggirl]

patience, patience - nothing works overnight.  Give it 3 months at least. I really wouldn't muck about with dosage yet.  DG x

[catlike]

I hear you DG- but this is intolerable- total wipe out ! Am so fed up- I ripped it off  !!

Am wondering if my adding it in on day 9 of a new cycle is something to do with my body not handling it? Maybe better to start it when I would add in the utro in 2nd half of cycle?

Anyway- it's off now... so patience was not on the cards for me today!

[Hurdity]

Hi catlike

Lol - I've done that in the past! I was given a conti patch way back and it gave me a headache so I ripped it off never to go back on that type anyway!

The thing is - are you post-menopausal or were you close to menopause when you first started HRT? If you are sensitive to the synthetic progestogen then you may well feel tired and also depends on how much estrogel you were using and how much you absorbed - as to whether your body is reacting to the reduction in oestrogen.

However as Dancinggirl says it is common to feel side effects initially and you should really wait to see if they settle before deciding this one is not for you.

What you were experiencing on the estrogel and utrogestan is normal pmt though - everyone should expect to feel like this when switching between the combos because that's what happens in the normal menstural cycle.

That being said if you tolerate continuous progestogen and the side effects settle then you could well eliminate the pmt that you experienced - but could swap this temporary blip each month for a continuous low grade tiredness/anxiety - it's swings and roundabouts - and you have to choose the combo that makes you feel better for most of the time!

If you are post-meno then you could go back to the gel and utro and perhpas have a slightly longer cycle so the prog withdrawal pms happens less often?

Hurdity x

[Mary G]

catlike, sorry to hear that your new regime is not working out for you, what a pain.

You say you had to stop the Oestrogen/Utrogestan because of the withdrawal problems on this regime.  The question is, how much Utrogestan were you taking i.e. how much and for how many days and was it orally or vaginally?  This would make a difference as to how you react to it. 

Femseven has the same synthetic progestin as the Mirena coil which is not the worst type of progestin but not as well tolerated as Utrogestan for some people. 

[catlike]

Hey Hurdity.... I've not had full working brain! Found out last night, as I was trying to work out my next step with this peri/meno journey that the chemist gave me the wrong patch !  It's just estro -Femseven 100... no prog in it at all!

So.... was obviously just having a bad day energy wise and perhaps the slower delivery of the estrogen was not enough on that day to make a diff? Also- it's possible the power of suggestion made me think it was prog- and that contributed to being so wiped out?!

Anyway- am seeing it as a blessing in disguise as I had actually wanted to try just e patches instead of the gel to see if that would make a diff before trying the conti route. I have one and half patches on now and gonna see how i go. Although I am getting some itching in the patch area- so who knows if I'll be able to handle them? Will add in the utro sequentially.

You say that on the est/utro combo that perhaps what i am experiencing is normal pmt- however I get depression after bleed has finished- so that would be POST menstrual syndrome no?  This low mood after a period started in early stages of peri for me. But perhaps you are right and it's the prog withdrawal happening. That would explain why my estrogel at 1.5mg each day didn't have any impact after bleeding.

I wasn't in meno when i began the hormones back in 2009- just had a few missed periods then, and bad days long headaches with a few hot flushes. Am guessing I'm not in meno now either- as my own estrogen seems to fluctuate to a certain pattern- i.e I know I'm gonna go down on day 15/16 as my own estro starts to decline in the 2nd half of cycle- this happens whether i bleed or not- whether i take extra estro or not. This is also why i don't add in the prog until day 19, as if any earlier, I have full on depression and no energy!

It's all very confusing and frusrating!

Also- I have tried the longer cycle- only once mind you - and felt pretty dreadful with energy drops and mood swings, just with my own estro levels fluctuating all over the place. So that didn't help me either.

I think I'm just one of those super sensitive gals who is having a difficult peri ride.
x

[catlike]

Mary G- thank you for your support too  .

Yes.... been thinking that maybe it's coz I'm not taking enough prog? I have always struggled to tolerate more than 100mg per day sequentially. So this month just gone, i took 100mg vaginally at night- for 9 days. Got a smallish bleed that went on for 3 days- with very little pain.

What do you think? Is it possible I'm not taking enough prog to balance out the estrogen? Would taking 200mg for 8 days smooth out the POST menstrual phase?

I know some ladies are intolerant to the prog and so take only 100mg for 7 days. I tried this couple of times and just ended up super constipated!

[Hurdity]

Hi catlike

So the pharmacist gave you the wrong patches - or was it the prescription that was wrong?

If you are using one and a half patches then that is 150 mcg which is quite a high dose. You would definitely need a full course of utrogestan to oppose this otherwise your lining may well end up thickening too much - although if your own cycle is going on and you are ovulating you will also have your own progesterone. However if you use it vaginally then you will end up getting a higher dose directly to your uterus.

I can't comment on why you feel low at the end of your bleed!

Re the itching with patches - don't scratch! Just peel them off really gently and don't rub off the marks vigorously! if you find these patches problematic then go for Estradot which are tiny so less area to stick to your skin.

Hurdity x

[Mary G]

catlike, progesterone is renowned for causing constipation and I had it all the time on the oral HRT.  Utrogestan taken vaginally does have a similar effect but it does disappear very quickly once you stop taking it.  Also, it is not the same every month and some months I hardly notice any constipation at all. 

As to how much Utrogestan you should take, it's hard to say.  If you have previously struggled on 100mg then I doubt 200mg would be a good idea.  I used two pumps of gel everyday and 100mg Utrogestan vaginally for a few days every 5 weeks (just changed it from every 4 weeks) and that suits me very well.  At least when you take it vaginally, most of it hits the womb and does not get lost in your digestive system as it does when taken orally.  Therefore, you are far better off taking a lower dose vaginally that a higher dose orally.

Why not try having another go at taking it vaginally for 7 or 9 days and see what kind of bleed/constipation you get?  The bleed you had on 9 days sounds about right to me. 

 

[catlike]

Hey Hurdity- not sure if chemist got wrong or my doc? Yes did think about the dose with patch- am guessing it's not as simple as 2 pumps of e gel=1.5mg and then just pop 1 and half patches on and you get the same result. Still can't figure out how you convert gel to patches. Anyway- had to pull the whole patch off my hip as nasty red mark all around - so now I'm trying top of thigh with another half patch(the other half is holding) and will see how I go with 100mcg.

And thanks for estrodot recommendation. 

Re the 'post menstrual syndrome'- there is a bit of info on the net. Not sure if i can post links but there's a website called mineralysis.com that has info on it and talks about zinc and copper having smomething to do with it.  Seems to be quite common. Certain it is a symptom of peri. I may try taking some prog during a bleed and see if that helps the crash when bleed ends.

Mary G - thanks again for your advice. Yes will keep trying - maybe just 7 days and see what happens.
x