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[CherryC]

Hello, can anyone tell me if they are on Vagifem as well as HRT (oestrogel and utrogestan in particular).  I was put on Oestrogel and Utrogestan and Testim Gel due to much reduced sexual sensitivity (clitoral) and response (orgasm).  It is not so much libido as the lack of sensitivity, it just feels different. I have been on the HRT well over a year now and had no improvement. The amount of oestrogel has recently been increased from 2 to 4 pumps a month ago, but again, no improvement as yet.   When I first started on the HRT, my estradiol level was 400. Blood test last month read only 100. Think I am getting dispondent now and searching for anything else to try!  I read an old thread where someone was using Vagifem along with their HRT and found it helpful. Does anyone have any experience of this or any other suggestions please? (Age 55).

[Dancinggirl]

CherryC - I am a bit confused about your oestrogen levels?? I think there are 2 different types of measurement and hopefully someone will be along to clarify that. Can you let us know the letters that follow the numbers on these readings and are they the same letters after each reading?
I think your first reading may have been one measurement type and 400 could be about right when using 2 pumps of gel.  Your second reading of 100 may have been the alternative measurement type and, if it is, this is still quite a high reading. If they are both the first type of measurement then 100 would be extremely low if you are using 2pumps of gel per day - this would indicate you are simply not absorbing the oestrogen - very unusual as I get between 500-600 on 2 pumps per day??!!!
I somehow doubt that increased oestrogen will necessarily improve libido but, again, I could be wrong on this. It's the testim gel that should be helping libido? I also doubt that local oestrogen would make that much difference either.
Libido, sexual stimulation and general interest in sex is a difficult thing to treat I think - there are so many factors in play that effect the way we respond and enjoy sex.  I am now 60 and though HRT has improved my libido, I do find it more difficult to achieve orgasm and I think this is quite common as we get older. Getting "in the mood" is very important  - there are many erogenous zones around our body that can help things along. As long as sex is pleasurable, I don't think it is essential to always get that 'climax'.  DG x

[Taz2]

Ah yes the disappearing orgasm. It's such a shock when this begins to happen - so sad to feel you are losing such a lovely pleasure. Do you also find that nipples are not as reactive?

I've been on HRT on and off for nine years but it hasn't made any difference to sexual response. A lot of doctors mistake lack of response for lack of libido by the way. It's really frustrating when you do want to make love but the body just doesn't respond no matter what you do. I remember accusing a past lover of changing his technique - it wasn't him, of course, it was me 

There's a bit here about sexual arousal in older women http://www.menopause.org/for-women/sexual-health-menopause-online/sexual-problems-at-midlife/decreased-arousal   and more here http://www.menopause.org/for-women/sexual-health-menopause-online/sexual-problems-at-midlife/decreased-response-and-pleasure

Taz x

[CherryC]

Dancinggirl, thanks so much for your reply. Here is what the levels say.

A year ago: 17-Beta OESTRADIOL   421   pmol/L

One month ago: 17-Beta OESTRADIOL   112   pmol/L

When I first saw Professor Studd over a year ago he said I was peri.  I was still having my own periods every 3 weeks. Of course being on the HRT I don't know if and when my own periods have stopped.  Approaching 55 now so imagine they have probably stopped or in the process of.   I was getting a normal bleed once a month even on the hrt up until last October and November when I had nothing, then usual amount December and January and nothing at all during February. Having upped it to 4 pumps this month, I am feeling good in myself, not so hot at night, nice mood etc.  He hasn't altered the Utrogestan so I am taking 100mg for the first 10 days of each month. I had stopped the testosterone 6 months ago as I felt it wasn't really helping with my cause but he suggested i started it up again, which I have done. It does help with mood and energy levels but still not the response. CherryC x

[CherryC]

Taz2 thanks v much for reply and for the links..I will have a good read later today. The HRT does seem to help with libido but not the response and your reply seems to back that up. Think I have been expecting it to cure both but seems it's not the case, yet anyway. By the way, the nipples seem to be fine, so at least that is something!  x

[Dancinggirl]

CherryC - For some reason you don't seems to be absorbing the gel very well!!!!!  Do you apply it to inner thighs and leave to dry for at least 10mins before dressing?  Do you split the dose to 2 pumps morning and 2 pumps evening?  The Testim should help with libido and response but I'm afraid, as CKLD has said, reduced sexual interest and response are part of the ageing process.  We are all different and as long as the meno symptoms are under control I bee live that is the best we can expect. 
Do get your partner to concentrate on the 'zones' that are working.  For many of us, we are just grateful if intercourse doesn't hurt - the burning soreness of vaginal atrophy can really stop one enjoying sex - HRT will at least help to keep this at bay.  Dg x

[CherryC]

Dancing girl - when I was using just 2 pumps I was putting it on inner thighs. Since upping the dose this month to 4 pumps, I have been putting 2 pumps on the inner thighs and 2 pumps on the outer arms/shoulders (full length), all at the same time in the morning. I think I tried some at night once before and it made me a bit wired/restless during the night (that might just have been coincidence). I could try splitting it again if you think that might be better?  I did wonder if I was absorbing it ok? Silly question, but my legs/thighs and outer arms are quite bumpy with keratosis pilaris (chicken skin), which apparently is blocked follicles with keratin (no cure), don't suppose that would stop it absorbing?
I wait about 20 minutes before getting dressed after applying. x

[CherryC]

Sorry also wanted to ask if anyone has used the Kegel8. I believe there is a programme for sensitivity. Has this helped anyone and is it safe to use? x

[PoshPenny]

Hi my GP changed me from the oestrogel (I'd put myself up to 4 pumps) to
 Estradot patches and Vagifem.  I take utrogestan too.  The Vagifem has helped quite a lot I was finding it all very uncomfortable (understatement) and frankly irritating before.  Much better now.  I think I need a stronger Estradot patch (she put me on 50mg) and the hot flushes are back and keeping me awake at night, but I do prefer them to all the daily gloopiness with oestrogel.  The patches are changed 2x a week.

[CherryC]

Thanks PoshPenny, interesting to hear what you are taking and is working for you. Might be something for me to consider as I don't think I am absorbing the gel very well.

[Kate50]

Hi CherryC
Firstly the kegel8 I haven't been able to use mine since VA got worse as the metal bit on the bit you insert irritates! Am terrible after a smear!  I think the oestrogel is a bit lacking when it comes to VA, since starting on oestrogen back in September the only time I've been on top of it is when I was taking oral oestrogen.  But this gave me headaches.  Been on gel for  2 months and having to regularly use vagifem.  I have been contacted by other ladies who say oestrogel takes ages to build up but after your length of time with increasing it I can't see that it's going to?  6 months would be my cut off point.  I have been ill past week and don't think gel been hardly working I have taken 2 days of oral and already feel better!  Patches were the same alright first day but after that just wore off . I tried upping gel it just made me wired. Think the testim is slow to work but then I suppose how many years were we going without full hormones? I think the testim helps me with the aches and that's about it not fancying any young men anyway!

[Dancinggirl]

Oh Kate50 - you sound so depressed - poor thing.  I do think you should discuss how you feel with your doctor -
chopping an changing the amount of oestrogen you use is not  good idea and clearly the VA is a real problem for you - are you very uncomfortable?
Have you tried some ADs or SRRIs alongside the HRT ? Many women need both.

Many women do need both local oestrogen with systemic HRT to control meno symptoms and VA but I always use vaginal moisturisers and lubricants to help keep things comfortable around my 'lady bits'.
DG x

[Kate50]

Lol thanks for your reply dancingirl but I dont feel depressed! I haven't been swapping and changing just had a couple days orally to give me a boost.  I asked the question on here if illness and medication affected the oestrogen and a few people reckon it did.  Otherwise I Feel ok the VA is annoying but it's not as bad as it could be.