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[GypsyRoseLee]

After waking yesterday feeling so much better and calmer, my mood started to dip again mid afternoon. Felt agitated and anxious all evening, but managed to drop asleep on the sofa for a few minutes.

Went up to bed, with the nasty suspicion that I wouldn't sleep because I felt off and jittery.

Well, I had a dreadful night. Zero sleep. Waves of anxiety washing over me all night. Felt absolutely desperate inside. Just awful. Took 10mg of Amitriptyline, but it did nothing. I felt if I got up and walked I would faint and fall over.

In the end, got up at 6am and took 20mg of Amitriptyline, hoping it would help me nod off. But it didn't. I just lay on the sofa feeling dreadful. This is as bad as I have ever felt.

Popped in to see my GP this morning. He told me that I could have too much oestrogen on board, hence the nausea and dizziness (I didn't know too much oestrogen = nausea).

He recommended I remove my 50mg patch, 'because it doesn't seem to be helping you at all'. And that way, when I see Annie Evans I will be starting with a clean slate. He wouldn't start me on a AD as he said it wouldn't work over the next two weeks anyway, and I would only get the side effects. He's probably right about that.

That sort of makes sense to me, so I am now patchless. I don't know which way is up or down at the moment. I might 'go dark' for a while on here because I am sick to death of all my ups and downs, and sick of writing about them.

[vintagefiend]

hi gypsy and sorry to hear that u had such a dreadful night- i totally hear what you say about being fed up writing/thinking about your symptoms.
i had a similar reaction to 200mcg evorel patch- and i was so sure it was gonna be the magic bullet- i stuck it for 3 days but really after 24 hours i was a loon!
u will feel better v soon- just need that damn patch to work its way out!
don't blame u for going dark, we all need to do that now and again (i don't expect a response to this!!!)
Brilliant that u have an appointment looming with an excellent doctor- hang on in there x

[jedigirl]

Good luck GRL, we're here if you need us xxx

[jedigirl]

Grl,
If youre still here am i right in thinking you did okay on Utrogesten and a form of oestrogen? Why did you come off it? If you don't mind me saying you seem to have been on so many different things maybe you need to choose the one that has been most beneficial and stick with it longer?
I have been on Utrogestan and Oestrogel since last August and it's the one thats worked well for me. I have weepy down days but had these all my life.
hugs xxx

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Jedi. I am really fed up with myself for chopping and changing too much. My GP told me it would cause problems if I did.

Yes, overall I think I did best on a 50mg patch with separate Utro. I stuck with that for 3 months but still got breakthrough symptoms on a regular basis. So I switched to the BCP hoping it would be more controlling.

I'm now questioning whether I should have removed my patch this morning?

[coldethyl]

Hope you feel brighter soon. Fingers crossed that Dr Evans can help. I'm not on HRT so am experiencing days when I just feel a sense of black emptiness like I'm hollow inside and periods of intense agitation so I can empathise. I've personally found that mindfulness and cbt have been helpful in coping with it so maybe these are things to explore as well as medication that will come with its own host of problems. None of the drugs, be it HRT or ADs are a quick fix and if may, as others have said, be case of sticking something out for months rather than changing things so often.
I think your GP was right to suggest removing the patch as there's a chance now that you'll see what is the HRT and what is your own body throwing out spokes in the wheel. It sucks but it will pass xx

[jedigirl]

Oh hun, you're only trying to help yourself as we all are.
Can you cut the patch so you're not going cold turkey straight away?

[dogdoc]

GRL...you've been on so many different concoctions for so long I don't think you know what your body is doing anymore. You can't draw any conclusions because of the hormones your taking plus whats going on in the background. I was doing the same thing exactly in a desperate bid to feel better as soon as possible.

I think stopping everything altogether, monitoring when your symptoms happen, when you feel good etc. for several months wouldn't be a bad plan. You're still getting periods ( or you were before all the HRT stuff) so there's still some estrogen of your own kicking around in there.

Get a short acting benzodiazepine ( like clonazepam) and only take if anxiety very very high. You won't get addicted or gain weight if it's only very occasional use.

Do you feel bad at ovulation? Premenstrually? At the beginning of the follicular phase? ....good information to have.
Tara

[GypsyRoseLee]

Right, I have applied another patch. I had a hard think, and cannot think it might be making me worse? Looking back through my mood diary I have had lots and lots of good days and weeks wearing a 50mg patch, so it doesn't make sense that it might be making me feel really bad now?

And, I'm frankly scared to just stop it, I think I'm already feeling emotionally chaotic enough at the moment.

But I don't know what is causing what? I 'would' have finished the 2/10 combi tabs today, and would expect a withdrawal bleed just after the weekend. My own cycle was pretty much in sync with the 2/10/cycle, so I'm pinning my hopes on this awful dip being caused by my own progesterone spiking. I just really hope this awfulness goes away when my period arrives.

[jedigirl]

Could be GRL, hope so.
I wonder if some of the problem is how involved in it all you are. I've been there, constantly scanning myself and analysing my moods. You're menopausal and it's shitty.
Do you feel your symptoms are mainly anxiety based now? Are you on any ADs alongside your hrt?
jg

[coldethyl]

Could be GRL, hope so.
I wonder if some of the problem is how involved in it all you are. I've been there, constantly scanning myself and analysing my moods. You're menopausal and it's shitty.
Do you feel your symptoms are mainly anxiety based now? Are you on any ADs alongside your hrt?
jg

Glad that someone else asked this as I was wondering same. When I was having my breakdown over Christmas I was constantly checking how I felt  what I thought, what might " cure " me and so on and all it did was make me much much worse. My mum who also suffered from anxiety for years said I was searching for anything to make me better but that only by stopping searching would I get better and I think there's an element of truth in that. You are so desperate to be better that you are placing an enormous burden on yourself and your body that is hindering recovery xxx

[Taz2]

I don't understand why you have put on another patch GRL when the doc suggested you go without until your appointment? All this chopping and changing wont be doing any good, in my opinion, and you wont have a clear base to start from. If you have been on HRT for some time (sorry haven't read all of the thread) then in my experience it is quite a few weeks before symptoms begin to kick in. I've been off HRT for nine weeks and have only begun to feel my symptoms starting to return in the last week.

Too much oestrogen can cause nausea and stomach problems even if using the patch or gel HRT.

Taz

[GypsyRoseLee]

Yes, I think you're right. When I am 'bad' like this, I just get overly panicky, flinging myself from pillar to post, desperate to feel better.

I spend too much time on here, and other similar places, just hoping to read some magic words that will magically make me feel better. And it's actually counter productive.

But when I am 'well' I am the complete opposite. I am very chilled and don't tend to post that much at all.

Actually, ***Stop The Press*** I think I know why I'm suddenly feeling so intensely dreadful. I think it's because I took Amitriptyline. I took 10mg at about 1am, hoping it would help me nod off (it's usually excellent for this). But this time it didn't work. I think by 1am I had almost gone past it? Always when I take Amitriptyline, I would take it at about 8pm, which would make me nicely sleepy for about 10pm.

I've never taken it after 10pm. And then I took 20mg more when I got up at 6am, hoping it would chill me out. But I have never taken it during the day before. Always during mid evening, then I would just sleep through any side effects.

I haven't needed to take any for ages, but did take 20mg at 9pm a few nights ago and fell asleep fine, and certainly didn't feel like this the next day. I should have taken the Amitriptyline much earlier last night, and certay not taken any at 6am.

How I feel right now, this awful very tired but very wired panicky feeling, is just how I felt when I tried taking Sertraline a couple of years ago. Same when.I tried Mirtrazapine. It seems too much of a coincidence?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Sorry, Jedi my above reply was to you, but I didn't really answer your questions, just went waffling on.

But, yes, my peri symptoms have always been about the anxiety, mood swings and sudden low moods. I have very few physical symptoms other than my periods did get much lighter and shorter a couple of years ago, and I suddenly started suffering with aching joints.

I have tried ADs. Sertraline sent me round the bend, and I could only stick it for a month, before switching to Amitriptyline, and I was on it for 7 months (but no HRT). It worked pretty well. I still have several packs of it left. I also took it years ago when I had PND and it worked well for me then.

I'm fully prepared to try an.AD alongside whatever Annie Evans recommends.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Coldethyl, yes I am just like you, panicking and constantly searching for words of wisdom. But your Mum is right, it doesn't help at all in the medium-long term. It just makes you feel momentarily better.

And when panic and anxiety pounce, it's so awful that I go into panic mode desperate for something to make me feel better. I hate it, I really do. It's so unlike me.