Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Niamh]

Hi GLR

Yes after about 3 days it all kicked in...Prof Studd didn't seem bothered about trying to switch off my own fluctuations when I saw him as ive not had a normal period only the utro bleed , I also wonder if it's a bit of an impossible feat at the moment! I think it's about trying to find the best dose you feel comfy on to complement your own hormones and for me it feels like 2 as perhaps this doesn't take things too low or too high?!? All trial and error but I had a pretty normal month on 2 with only a few bad nights but he wanted me to go back to 3 ironically now he's put me back on 2 as yet again 3 seemed to tip me over the edge! Hope that helps x

[Briony]

The more I read and experiment, the more I think it is the fluctuations which cause me problems, rather than low estrogen per se. I think my doc read too much in to me having a one off very low estrogen reading and for a while got too side tracked with upping my levels rather than keeping them steady. I would love to know why they can't make a CCP which contains bio identical estrogen and a kinder progesterone, such as the one in Femoston. Qlaira is the nearest, but being a  4 - phase pill, you still get slight fluctuations.

[dogdoc]

Hurdity I agree 100%.  I think hormonal chaos begins LONG before what mainstream medical would call 'perimenopause' when cycles start to lengthen and skip.  There is no such thing as a 'normal' perimenopause but I think there's a classic sequence.  There is a website in canada (cemcor) run by an endocrinologist who explains it quite well but I strongly disagree with her that super doses of progesterone are the answer to everything. 

Stage 1
Essentially I think very early fluctuations cause increasing spikes and troughs of estrogen.  You're not estrogen deficient per se but your highs are higher and lows are lower. For me this caused cyclically painful breasts, worsening pms, irritability and occasional very mildly irregular cycles.  I think this is the true beginning of peri but the experts disagree

Stage 2
Next estrogen goes on a rampage.  Your highs are extreme. Your lows are extreme. You might not ovulate on occasion. Periods start to go out of whack ( usually much heavier and closer together). This too is too much estrogen and sometimes low progestetone. 
For me this was headaches, chills, nausea, weeping ( so much weeping) panic attacks, jitters, shakes, vibrations, tingling, hair loss, chills, crashing fatigue. Women at this stage feel like they're going INSANE,. I seriously thought I was going to need hospitalization. GRL I think this is where you are. Again mainstream medicine would not even qualify this as peri menopausal. But estrogen is sometimes way high, sometimes low. So it would depend on what day and what month they checked your estrogen. 

Stage3
Next is when estrogen actually starts declining.  The crazy gets better. Periods get lighter.  You might skip one or two. This is probably the best time to start hrt. I'm here now and let me tell you the last few months have been a virtual DREAM compared to the previous two years.  Getting hot flashes, joint pain, insomnia, pvcs, dry everywhere. Hard to believe I consider that better but I really really do.  Just skipped first period.  This is the stage where medicine would call it 'perimenopause''.  So the early stages which for many of us are the true hell are ignored and not treated. 

[BeckyBoo]

Hello all

Hope you don't mind me popping in (i'm a newbie). I'm sat here with mild period pain after having a Marina coil.

I would say i am now at stage 3 as been at stage 2 for for about a year or more. I start taking Estrogen tomorrow. So hoping it will help me asap.

BB

[dogdoc]

Good luck Becky Boo. I'm considering estrogen again after a year off it. I've only missed one period though and the hot flashes are still tolerable. I wanted to be sure i was truly in the 'sustained low estrogen' phase before I went back on it, as adding estrogen to my already present estrogen was very bad at times ( at other times it was just great which gives me hope that when my estrogen is consistently low and not just swinging up and down like a jumping jack I truly will feel overall better).

I'm just grateful I appear to have emerged from my version of 'stage 2'....unless my body decides to throw me back there. Always a possibility I fear.

[BeckyBoo]

I have no idea what my estrogen is doing other than my fsh level was 35. I'm only 42 so need to go on hrt as i'm to young to be without estrogen.

I'll let you know how i get on with my tablets. Something needs to help as my life is grinding to a halt which is not good when I have a 5 year old daughter that is full of beans.

BB

[GypsyRoseLee]

I think you're right dogdoc. But the only thing is that for a year before I sent on HRT my periods had become very light, more like heavy brown spotting than anything. Plus my boobs shrunk and no longer seemed to react to my menstrual cycle anymore (previously I used to get very painful, swollen breasts every month).

So that would indicate low oestrogen wouldn't it? Yet my moods were so bad, I thought I was going crazy. Even since being on HRT my bleeds have been very might and barely lasting 3 days, even when on medium doses.

So I  still confused as to how far into peri I am??? Out of my close female relatives they have all been post menopausal by their mid 40s. I am 46 this year so I have lasted the longest.

[Briony]

GRL - I think you and I are in a similar position in that the hrt we're both taking at present is the highest you can get without actually suppressing ovulation. With such strong systems ourselves (ie still in Stage 2?) at times, we're having too much estrogen - but it drops again before we can get used to it. In theory, my 100 mcg patches should actually be controlling my own hormones, but I think I'm one of the small percent for who need more than 100 mcg patches.

I'm really regretting coming off the pill. I'm now in two minds whether to go for a higher dose of patch/gel (greater effort but safer) or go for a pill like Yaz which is more powerful than Qlaira, yet not as strong as Marvelon.

Over the past few months, I have learned how to recognise the difference (for me) between low and high estrogen - although I agree with what others have said regarding actually figures being irrelevant:

- Low = headache, sudden fatigue, brain fog, chills, dizziness, digestive issues and ''adrenaline nausea" (if that makes sense?!!), low mood 
- High/fluctuating =  jittery, anxious, tingling/pins and needles, true nausea, joint pains.

What I'd give just to be stuck in the middle!

[Lizab]

I am following this.

My moods were tolerable when my periods were close together/nonstop for two years. I was a little nasty and quick to anger, but I felt ok. When my periods became lighter and several months apart, my boobs shrank, my mood sank and I went insane.

I'm assuming low estrogen has to be my problem. My mom was done at 45 at the latest (not sure exactly as she had an iud w/hormones), and I'm 39.

[Lizab]

Eeek. Briony, I have all of those except headache every day. I couldn't possibly be swinging that wildly hour to hour or minute to minute, could I?

[dogdoc]

Yup I think it can vary that widely day to day, hour to hour. It's not just estrogen either, but progesterone and everything else as well. On average our estrogen is declining throughout perimenopause but with big spikes and lows.

Big spikes can cause one set of symptoms, huge drops another, and overall the level of estrogen/progesterone and likely testosterone are lower than previous years...sometimes we have the estrogen of our 20's ( or higher) then next we have the estrogen level of a menopausal woman.

 We don't get near that low steady level of estrogen though until we're at or very near menopause ( I've read within 1-2 years of final menstrual period). So if you're like me and high spikes cause weeping and jitters, and panic and chills, and estrogen lows cause irritability, food cravings, hot flashes and joint pain  ( among others) there's really no 'happy medium' until you reach menopause, unless you're willing to override your cycle completely with very high dose HRT or birth control. Neither of which I've been brave enough to try as yet.


http://0101.nccdn.net/1_5/3a4/1b4/12e/egg-lessFig1.jpg

[Lizab]

I never got on well with BCP in my 20s, tried many. The worst for me had multiple phases in a month, and I spotted all the time. The best actually had desogestrel for the progestin, which I've seen a few people on the forum mention for their progestin.

[anna123]

How are you feeling now GRL? I'm also on Femoston 2/10 after trying patches then Femstons 1/10 which seemed to have no effect on my physical and mental symptoms. i've been happy on 2/10 for 2 years though now having some other problems.

[Briony]

I never got on well with BCP in my 20s, tried many. The worst for me had multiple phases in a month, and I spotted all the time. The best actually had desogestrel for the progestin, which I've seen a few people on the forum mention for their progestin.

Qlaira worked well for me as it's such a low dose. Spotting was main problem. Looking back, there are far worse symptoms to deal with, so maybe I was expecting too much?

[Briony]

Eeek. Briony, I have all of those except headache every day. I couldn't possibly be swinging that wildly hour to hour or minute to minute, could I?

But they are very different sets of symptoms. It has taken me a few years to notice the difference. For example, high estrogen nausea is very different to low estrogen. Anxiety/jitters/wired (high) is different to low, flat mood (low). Does that make sense?

This is quite an interesting read, especially for younger members considering the pill. Qlaira is not featured as it's too new, but it would be on the right and low down as it has low estrogen (for a pill) and is not v androgenic .

http://www.avongpeducation.co.uk/handouts/2012/youngpersons/The%20pill%20ladder.pdf