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Author Topic: starting HRT post meno  (Read 4515 times)

babyjane

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starting HRT post meno
« on: November 24, 2015, 02:25:34 PM »

Just wondering, is HRT ever prescribed for the first time post meno if it hasn't been used in the years previously or is there a cut off age after which it will not be started?

Also just wondering, if it can be started post meno would it give the same bone and heart protection if bone thinning has already begun?
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Hurdity

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 04:20:15 PM »

Hi babyjane

I am sure there will be some on here who have been prescribed it for the first time when several years post-menopausal - in fact I know there have so hopefully they will be along.

Some recent research especially in relation to protection of the heart and blood vessels, led the British Menopause Society and others to produce a statement to the effect that evidence shows that there is a "Window of Opportunity" for starting HRT where it has a protective rather than harmful effect. This window of opportunity is usually within 10 years of menopause and preferably under 60 - although I think some women have started it over 60 - and in this case the BMS recommends transdermal oestrogen is used. In fact transdermal oestrogen is generally recommended to be the safest route for older women.

There is some information about cardiovascular risk on this website under HRT risks here:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/risks.php

There is information on osteoporosis, HRT and bone loss here ( also this site): http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/osteoporosistreatment.php. From memory I can't remember whether oestrogen given post-menopausally actually helps to build bone where there has already been bone loss, or whether it just slows down bone loss - I have a feeling that there can be some effect ( of building bone) but don't quote me on that! I need to look up more info!

Hope this helps!

Are you thinking of giving it a go?

Hurdity x
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Kathleen

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 04:43:48 PM »

Hello babyjane.

I started HRT after three years without periods so I was post menopause. I had tolerated all the symptoms in the belief that I would soon turn a corner but when I experienced constant feelings of severe anxiety I decided to ask for HRT.  After two weeks the anxious sensations disappeared, proving that the source was hormonal. BTW my periods stopped in 2010 and I began trying HRT in 2013 when I was coming up to 57 and I am 59 now.

As for bone health I read somewhere that taking olive oil helps to strengthen bones if taken for two years. I can't remember where I got that information but it may be worth a Google!

Hope this helps and take care.

K.
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babyjane

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 09:39:20 AM »

My thanks to both of you for taking the time to reply.

Having had a hysterectomy at 38 (ovaries retained) I never knew where I was in menopause until my first night sweat 6 years ago.  Even then I didn't connect it until the hot flushes started just afterwards.

It has never been so bad that I considered asking for HRT because I was warned it could upset my already volatile thyroid levels and I was fortunate in that I could cope.

My 3 yearly bone scans show a little weakening of my lumbar spine each time although I am not yet osteoporotic but I don't want to be if it can be avoided.  My father had his first heart attack at my age so I was just musing and wondering if there was anything I could do to maybe help protect myself, hence asking the question before I see my GP for the results of my latest bone scan in 2 weeks time.

 Menopause wise this last year has seen a definite lessening of meno symptoms so it is not for that reason alone I am thinking along these lines.
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grumpyjane

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 01:36:30 PM »

Interesting babyjane!
I'm 58, just about to start hrt for first time, 4 yrs post meno. Like you I thought Oh I'll just wait a while and it will all go away... Wrong! In fact am in Dr waiting room now so will reply properly later when not mobile!
Good luck
Jane
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babyjane

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2015, 02:53:33 PM »

thanks for your reply Jane, I am also 58 and will await your reply. :thankyou:
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Hurdity

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2015, 05:01:39 PM »

Hi again babyjane

In you position - ie having had a hysterectomy - I would not hesitate to take HRT ie oestrogen! Most of the risks and problems associated with HRT concern the progesterone aspects, and especially the synthetic ones and you don't need it!!

So if your sweats and flushes started somewhere in peri-menopause then you have probably been post-menopausal for say 4 years possibly? Even if you were post-menopausal when they started - you are well within the "Window of Opportunity" ie less than 10 years since menopause, and under 60.

I can understand your concern re thyroid function and treatment, but there are plenty of women who have an underactive thyroid, take thyroid medication as well as HRT. The good news is that because your sex hormones are no longer fluctuating if there is some adjustment needed then this should be fairly straightforward I imagine ( though not an expert!). From what I've read some interction may be more likely to occur with oral oestrogen. At your age and stage transdermal oestrogen would be better anyway.

If you don't mind my saying you have mentioned other issues and anxiety etc on other threads - and decreased oestrogen is well known to lead to low mood in some women, so increasing your oestrogen could have beneficial effects both on your bone health and mood generally - and perhaps better able to cope with some of life's problems?

In the paper produced in 2013 by Panay et al (British Menopause Socaity/Women's Health Concern) they had this to say about osteoporosis, taking into account the latest research at the time:

Long term effects of HRT
Osteoporosis:
HRT is effective in preserving bone density and preventing osteoporosis in both spine and hip, as well as reducing the risk of osteoporosis-related fractures.

HRT is the first-line therapeutic intervention for the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis in women with POI and menopausal women below 60 years, particularly those with menopausal symptoms.

Initiating HRT after the age of 60 years for the sole purpose of the prevention of osteoporotic fractures is not recommended.

The bone-protective effect of oestrogen is dose-related. Recent studies have shown a bone-preserving effect even with relatively low doses.

The bone preserving effect of HRT on bone mineral density declines after discontinuation of treatment.

Some studies have shown that the use of HRT for a few years around the menopause may provide a long-term protective effect many years after stopping HRT.

Bisphosphonates and other pharmacological agents can be used as an alternative to HRT to preserve bone density, but there can be side effects. Recent reports suggest that long-term therapy with alendronate can predispose to femoral shaft fragility fractures due to prolonged suppression of bone turnover.


http://min.sagepub.com/content/19/2/59

If you decide you want to give it a go and there is no medical reason why you shouldn't, then you could mention some of this to your doc, and also if you are still getting night sweats and flushes - this could be very persuasive in your request for oestrogen from your doc. You might expect a few initial side effects but these should settle and you should feel much better while knowing you were protecting your bone health as well by preventing further bone loss.

There is information on osteoporosis on this site which I expect you've seen here:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/benefit.php

and here ( and also some other pages):
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/osteoporosis.php
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/osteoporosistreatment.php

The licensed dose (patch) for osteoporosis prevention is 50 mcg patch but if you decide to go for it I would start lower ( eg 25 mcg) and gradually acclimatise as your body has been without it for some time.

Hope this helps :)

Hurdity x


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marras

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2015, 05:20:11 PM »

Hi Babyjane, I'm 65 and have been on HRT for just a year, so very post menopause! Like a lot of ladies I thought the nightmare wouldn't last that long but after 12 years I'd had enough and couldn't go on. I'm on a very small dose, patch, and it has made a lot of difference. It hasn't solved all my problems and I truly feel that a lot of damage has been done to my body through lack of oestrogen and I wish now that I'd taken it during the 'window of opportunity'. I still have a womb so I take a progestogen quarterly with regular scans but you wouldn't need to take progesterone as you've had a hysterectomy.
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grumpyjane

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2015, 02:31:56 AM »

Hello ladies

Well I'm glad there are some of us in the same boat ie. Late HRT starters. Marras I too feel rather a victim of bad publicity, hence my late start, but better late than never. I thought 9 years was a long time, but 12! Have yet to find out about irreversible damage.

Babyjane, I must clarify that I'm  living in Venezuela and went to see a doctor privately. She was not nearly as thorough as I would expect an NHS doctor to be (although reading some posts, I'm not so sure !)   I was glad that I had done lots of research via this website, so I could be prepared. Especially with my limited spanish!  The doctor today was happy to prescribe HRT, wanted to give me tablets as in her experience the patches don't  stick very well. I said, no I want patches, and she agreed.

So now my problem is finding the blessed drugs!! Finally found Vagifem and Utrogestan but no patches or gel yet.   :bang: So near and yet so far...

Your situation is different I know, but I say do your research and go for it. Good luck!
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marras

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2015, 01:07:05 PM »

Hi Grumpyjane, yes, I too consulted a private consultant and luckily the clinic has a pharmacy so I can get the patches no probs. I just phone up and pay over the phone when I need a supply. I do hope you manage to get what you need.
My patches are Estradot and they stick very well and I've had no problem at all.
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babyjane

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2015, 05:22:05 PM »

So very helpful thank you to you all.  I would not want pills anyway because I am so sensitive to medication.  I also have very sensitive skin, do the patches irritate the skin at all?
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Mary G

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2015, 06:17:33 PM »

I found they irritated my skin slightly and caused an itch although the biggest problem I had was getting them to stick.  When I took them off they were always slightly damp underneath.  Why not try the gel?
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Hurdity

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2015, 09:07:32 AM »

I have sensitive skin and I was worried about patches too. Estradot which I use like marras, are very very small compared to the others so not much to stick so I would recommned these to try first. When I first started them I got a bit of itching but I made myself never ever scratch and if I feel an itch I scratch a little nearby! It seems to be OK now ( 8 years on!). The other thing re patches and irritation  - I never remove the marks on my butt cheek after changing the patch as I think this could also set up irritation. I just leave them marks there and don't worry about them!

Otherwise many women love to use gel like Mary G says - which has to be applied every day, but is more versatile in terms of adjusting the dose.

Hurdity x
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babyjane

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Re: starting HRT post meno
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2015, 09:16:32 AM »

thank you for all the information based on your experiences.  I see the GP in a week so have time to think about it all before I talk to him  :)
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