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[Hurdity]

I am surprised at the comments about deep voices and hairy chests still being made about testosterone (even though they are intended to be humorous) - considering how many women take it and how much has been said about it. Men have oestrogen and progesterone too - we just have more oestrogen ( and progesterone when menstruating/pregnant) and they have more testosterone. Thoise views are very old-fashioned now and the reason many GPs I imagine were and probably still are reluctant to prescribe it - they need educating!! The NICE guidelines make provision for it to be prescribed off licence.

At physiological appropriate doses there should be no side effects whatsoever. OK replacing it externally isn't going to quite replicate our own endogenous testosterone but should help. Anyone who gets side effects - the dose is too high. I can now sing higher than I used to when younger , and the only hairs are at/near the application site (small patch on inner thighs) where the concentration is higher and which I was warned about - a minor problem. Definitely not aggressive . Had more feelings like that when my own proper hormones were circulating.

Moonbeam - propanolol aside if it were me I would reduce oestrogen slowly at the very most reducing by 25 mcg at a time for say a couple of weeks at least. You want to give your body time to adjust and I am surprised the GP suggested it - so going down to 175mcg and then to 150mcg etc. If you can't get to a menopause clinic then perhaps e-mail Dr Currie for £25 and ask her view (on the reduction) if you don't want to go against what your doc says - and if she says OK then maybe go ahead. If so do be prepared for a resumption of symptoms.

I realise this isn't about propanolol but you mentioned about the patch - and also not sure if anyone on here has taken it just for headaches but sounds like mainly for menopausal palpitations/anxiety - because it (prop) affects the heart.

Anyway hope you manage to sort something out and finally get rid of those dreadful headaches!

Hurdity x

[Briony]

Hi Moonbeam

I follow your posts closely as I too am considering switching from a low dose BCP to 2 x 100mcg patches. My reasoning is that Qlaira didnt totally suppress ovulation, whereas I am reacting badly to the stronger, synthetic estrogens in a standard pill as they are so much more potent.

The 200mcg patches was initially recommended for ladies with severe PMS as it suppresses ovulation and  keeps you 'steady'. In that sense, it does not function as hrt (ie as a 'top up'), but more like a BCP (except contraception isnt guaranteed). More recently, Nick Panay (and even Prof Studd) have questioned whether 100mcg can still suppress ovulation - but reduce the sorts of side effects you were having with the higher dose. Perhaps this was behind your GP's initial choice of 200mcg, assuming you're in peri menopause?

http://www.pms.org.uk/assets/files/guidelinesfinal60210.pdf
http://www.studd.co.uk/pdf/gally%20suppresion.pdf

Out of interest, do you still have regular periods? Which progesterone do you take? How often? (Apologies if you have already said - I get confused with who takes what!). B x

[moonbeam121167]

Briony,  I had a total hysterectomy at the end of 2012 and was on 2mg pill for about a year before the consultant told me my estrogen levels were so very low I needed to double my dose, my headaches were bad well before I was on 2x100mcg estradot so I really dont believe its that that is causing the headaches, I am reducing my dose as I am having a sore boob and the GP thinks it could be down to too high estrogen, she also said if my meno symptons return I can increase again so I will see how I go, 

Hurdity I am still concerned about taking the Propranolol, think I will continue with amitrypline , I shall cut a little off a patch  and use that along side a full one and then a week or so I cut one in half and so on and see how I get on, thanks for all your help

[GypsyRoseLee]

Just to echo what Hurdity says about testosterone. Women naturally produce their own testosterone. So when levels start to fall during menopause you can take testosterone to just top up to where it used to be. Certainly it shouldn't ever cause a deep voice or a sudden beard!

[Dandelion]

I'm going to see my GP on Thursday to ask for clonidine instead of propranolol.
I was really anxious yesterday, and I took a couple of clonidine and the anxiety melted away. What I was worrying about seemed smaller.
I am also weaning off my pregabalin, and getting bad withdrawal symptoms, as the med started reacting funny and causing me sweats and anxiety, low mood etc.
I will ask the doctor to swap it, because clonidine does have a good effect on my anxiety.
I also get high blood pressure from time to time, so the clonidine helps that too, but I will have to stop the propranolol.

[Briony]

I find that too high a dose of oestrogen gives me headaches.  WE are all different and I think many women think that high doses will solve all the problems when I believe it can sometimes make things worse.  I was using 2 pumps of oestrogel and still got some nasty headaches and now I'm using one pump per day I feel much better.

 I agree. I think a lot depends on age and where you are in terms of full menopause. Those in peri often benefit from a dose high enough to suppress ovulation, whereas if you're not ovulating and dont have sudden fluctuations, then a lower dose is likely to be more effective.

[CLKD]

Intermittent high blood pressure  - buy a home monitoring machine and check BP every morning B4 breakfast.  Make notes. That way you will know if it's high in reality or high by feeling …….

[Goosieloosie]

Hi there, I have been on propranolol  for 2 years for migraine, I take 80mg slow release & though it has never completely stopped my migraine attacks the severity of them has reduced. A year & a half ago my GP put me on a massive 160mg dose to try stop the frequency of the migraines but I just couldn't tolerate such a high dose so I went back to the GP and said I wanted to come completely off the propranolol so she told me to reduce them by taking one tablet every other day for 2 weeks....well the withdrawal symptoms were the worst thing I have ever experienced...racing heart, anxiety, sweats, agitated...it was just awful. I ended up phoning the surgery and asking if I could go back onto my lower dose of 80mg as I couldn't stand the way I was feeling. My GP was quite happy to put me back on it and I have been back on the 80mg slow release ever since. I'm too afraid to try and wean myself off them after the last experience and then of course I am also worried that the migraine may come back more severe. I have just began HRT almost a month ago so of course I don't want to mess around with the propranolol now or I won't know what side effects are from what!! My point is I do feel like I'm kinda stuck on them.I was offered Beta Blockers when I was in my late 30's for my migraine and I'm so pleased I refused to take them then. I think if I want to come off them I will have to reduce very very slowly over a longer period of time. Good luck with whatever you decide x

[CLKD]

Do they help Goosieloosie

[Goosieloosie]

Do they help Goosieloosie

Yes I think they've definitely stopped the severity of the migraines, I never get really ill now (vomiting & feeling hungover for a couple of days afterwards) but then I also take Sumatriptan if I feel one coming on so i don't really know how well the propranolol are working!! I also found I was having really bad side effects to the Sumatriptan and I have to cut them in half now so usually they work but take much longer & on the odd occasion they don't I just take the other half a few hours later & that usually  does the trick & knocks it off.
I'm having alot of headaches though lately, before I began the HRT aswell, I've actually just taken 2 paracetamol for a headache that has lingered all day  .

[CLKD]

I always take pain relief immediately.  Never suffered with migraines but do get nauseous if I don't act at once.

[moonbeam121167]

Evening all, well didn't start the propranol, thought the side effects sounded horrible, I am only coping 'just' with the side effects of the Amitryptline, so I am going to continue with that for a while longer, give it a chance to work, I have also been reducing the HRT dose down from 2x100mcg patch to 1x100mcg and a half , so I am using 150mcg patch but what I have noticed is I am having terrible depression, I cry at anything, I feel real sad, tired just don't have any mojo, my poor even noticed it last night, any ideas please, just don't know what to do

[SadLynda]

moonbeam, take a look at my and GypsyLee's latest topics in the 'personal experience' section.  We are both suffering the same type of symptoms.  (as are many others)

http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30210.0.html

[CLKD]

Your GP has prescribed a medication which can ease symptoms ……… I know that it is difficult to face yet more possible side effects but that is what it is for 

Maybe try at a weekend so that you can rest/sleep off any symptoms?

[Louisa]

I take them for palpitations, they work for me too.