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[Taz2]

Hi grumpyjane. You've done really well to try without HRT for such a long time facing all of these symptoms but with everything else you have to contend with - fairly new partner, his children, living abroad etc. - won't you give it a go? Life is too short to spend feeling so unwell all of the time. Lots of things are "natural" but that doesn't mean that we have to put up with them. If you go to see a doctor and find that you can't have HRT then at least you will have tried. This will mean a lot to your partner too - the fact that you are willing to see if there is anything to improve your quality of life and maybe get back some intimacy.

Taz x 

[GypsyRoseLee]

Diabetes is a 'natural' process. As is cancer. But we don't just meekly accept them. We bring out the big guns. Headaches and migraines are also 'natural' but we happily reach for aspirin, in their millions.

Thrush is 'natural' as is cystitis, but you have to be a masochist to endure them without medical intervention.

My poor DD suffers with nasty period cramps. Should I just look on and tell her it's 'only natural' and she has to be in extreme pain for hours and hours. No I don't, because I'm not a sadist. I reach for the painkillers and make her up a hit water bottle.

In the Western world we are incredibly blessed to have access to modern medicine. And it's incredibly churlish, if not arrogant, to sneer at what modern medicine can achieve when millions of people in the third world will never benefit from it, and suffer and die needlessly, in their millions.

[Peterspots]

💗

[honeybun]

I disagree that diabetes is natural. How can something that kills you be natural.

To be honest diabetes is mentioned in comparison to the menopause occasionally on the forum and it really annoys me as my hubby is Type 1 and it damned near killed him, and if not properly managed could still do....so perhaps a better comparison could be made

Honeyb

[GypsyRoseLee]

Just because something is 'natural' doesn't mean it can't kill you.

I would argue that a condition like diabetes is natural in that, unfortunately, the body is unable to regulate its insulin production. The condition is caused by an internal malfunction of the body's own processes, it's not caused by exterior forces etc.

[GypsyRoseLee]

I won't argue that big pharma companies are in it for the money. But regardless of that, there's no denying that HRT does help millions of women. And I, for one, would be fully prepared to take HRT or the BCP even knowing the risk involved because I would prioritise quality of life over risk. As I think many women would?

[GypsyRoseLee]

As an ajoinder, natural childbirth with zero medical intervention is extremely 'natural' and women have been giving birth without medical assistance for hundreds of thousands of years.

But being an extremely 'natural' process didn't stop child birth being one of the biggest killers of women prior to modern medicine and modern obstetric techniques, though.

[honeybun]

When did going through the menopause endanger your life on a daily basis.

Quality of course but it's not dangerous. It's nature's way on ensuring if we have children we are going to be fit enough and live long enough to look after them.

It's all bit evangelical for me to be honest.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Again I would argue that menopause can be life endangering if it reduces the quality of your life to such an extent that life doesn't feel worth living anymore. On my blackest days stepping under a bus seemed like a valid option, just to make all the awful anxiety and misery stop.

A local woman recently committed suicide due to severe PND. Not menopause, but hormonally induced depression and anxiety nonetheless.

But really why should anyone have to wait until something was verging on death before seeking treatment?

As for menopause being Nature's way of stopping us having more children and allowing us to take care of our children properly? Well up until th 20th century most women were dead well before they reached 50. I think the average mortality age was something like 46? So it's unlikely most women would ever have experienced menopause.

Physiologically we weren't designed to run without decent levels of oestrogen to support us

[GypsyRoseLee]

Yes I do agree with Pranja that risks should be absolutely clear. But it's so hard when each new study often contradicts earlier ones. But this is only to be expected with big advanced in medical research happening all the time.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Millions of women do come out the other side of theenopause. Granted. But who knows what they have suffered during the process?

I simply had no idea how invasive and life changing menopausal symptoms can be. Yet I am well educated, work in a clinical environment and have many friends and acquaitances who work in medicine and health care. Yet NONE us knew.

Let's face it, even most doctors are unaware if how menopause can manifest and dramatically impact on women's lives as constantly evidenced on here. What hope does your average lay woman have when it comes to equating her symptoms and suffering with the menopause?

Many women continue to suffer long after the menopause has technically finished? My Mum has friends in their 70s who still struggle with awful hot flushes and crippling VA.

No woman is forced to take HRT. But thank goodness that HRT is an option they can take if they so choose.

[GypsyRoseLee]

And I don't think anyone is saying HRT can help everyone are they?

I took HRT myself for over 4 months and frankly it didn't really help me at all. But I do know women IRL and on here for whom HRT does work wonderfully. And for their sakes I am glad that they have it as an option.

[GypsyRoseLee]

But with headaches, what is causing the pain? Just something not quite right temporarily in your brain chemistry, that's all. Assuming it is just a normal headache?

[Briony]

I have a hormonal imbalance. When this was diagnosed, the consultant said, 'you have an estrogen deficiency and, at your age, you need to replace the missing hormone  in order to protect your heart and bones. There are risks to HRT, which you can research, but the greatest risk of all is for you not to take it'. (He did point out that it would be a different scenario if I was over 50). In the same way I'd take insulin if diabetic and iron if anaemic, I take estrogen to manage this deficiency. It means I can now walk normally and wear normal underwear again, work without disruption, have a social life and rarely hassle my doctor/the NHS.

Whilst menopause, like pregnancy/periods, is totally natural, some of our bodies 'malfunction' in this process, and just as we'd have medical intervention if the pregnancy was not proceeding correctly, many of us have intervention because our hormones are not proceeding through life's stages normally. People in this situation are not  simply weak people going through a natural process, they are ill people suffering frightening symptoms because a natural process has gone wrong  who deserve to be respected and understood in the same way any other patient would be, whether a diabetic, asthmatic or whatever.

It is quite hurtful to suggest that those taking hormonal medication are simply not tough enough to manage a 'natural' situation. There's nothing natural about the way many people on this site do or have suffered!

B

PS  I do agree that there should be greater transparency in the reporting of risks and I tend to be cynical about 'new' reports, positive or negative. 

PPS Before anyone says anything about me  'scaring' those who dont take HRT with stories about risks to hearts and bones, I am only referring to people under the natural age for menopause or who have hormonal imbalances at a younger age - when the risks are different. I genuinely have the greatest respect  for those who don't take HRT - for myriad reasons- but equally,  I don't want to be made to  feel weak  for choosing to take it myself. I have enough of that perspective IRL. 

[GypsyRoseLee]

Very well put Briony.

Menopause is a natural process. But it's not like having a broken bone e.g either it is broken or it is not.

There are so many shades to menopause and varying degrees of symptom severity. And for some women, sadly, the symptoms are so severe that they genuinely lose the ability to function at all.

I think this is typified by 'hot flushes'. I have friends who when having a hot flush go almost purple and have visible sweat running out of their hair. Yet I have other friends also having a hot flush who just look very pinked cheek and feel 'warmer than normal. Yet both are categorised as hot flushes.

Like you, my consultant told me I was 'too young' ideally to already be suffering with depleted oestrogen at only 42. She explained it that my ovaries had switched themselves off (to a large extent) 10 years too soon, at a time when my body was still designed to be running in much higher oestrogen levels.