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[Chi chi]

Hi ladies,
Firstly I just want to apologise as I seem to be asking the same questions over and over again  I just don't understand and at the moment I feel like I'm free falling 

As some may know I was originally put on HRT (privately) mainly for mild depression and anxiety that just wasn't shifting despite being on 2 AD's and already trying loads of others, GP was adamant that it was nothing to do with hormones  hence why we went private. It was discovered that my oestrogen was on the low side and my testosterone was very very low, one of my hips was also oestioporatic ( sp )
I had been off the pill for 6 weeks prior to these tests, but had been on cerazette for approx 3 years before. I was taken off the combined pill in my mid 30's because of age and smoking, never really had any problems on the combined. I was given the mirena but could only cope with it for a year as I seemed to bleed constantly and was then on the cerazette. After approx a year on the cerazette I had a nervous breakdown, wether this had anything to do with it I don't know?
I also had PND with my first child but not so much with my 2nd??
I was put on oestrogel, testim and utrogestan (5-7 days each month) couldn't tolerate the utrogestan so haven't been using it regularly  after 3 months of starting treatment I finally felt better but then it was time for my first lot of utro, I haven't really felt that good since then  , been on different amounts of gel, even had implants (big mistake)! At the moment I'm on 3 pumps of oestrogel, tube of testim per week but I still have the implants (estrogen and testosterone) it'll be 6 months at the end of September and I believe this is how long they last?
I feel really low, anxious, on edge, bloated and fat and feeling like nothing's working 
I was thinking of coming off the gels and trying something else but what?? I thought about going back on the pill, am I allowed? Can I insist even though I still smoke and am 41?? When I was on the combined pill I don't remember feeling any of this, I wasn't over the moon ecstatic but I wasn't nowhere near this low and miserable and didn't have the horrible anxiety  it's all since I had the breakdown but just before I remember feeling so on edge, snappy, irritable and like I was running on empty but going at the speed of light! If that makes sense? So I'm wondering if it's all since coming off the combined pill and going into the progesterone only??
Can I ask everyone's thoughts on this and sorry if this post doesn't quite read well I'm just typing as things come to mind 
Thank you 

[CLKD]

I can understand you wanting to find solutions.  At a time when you feel vulnerable, it's hard getting answers. 

I am sure that someone will be along.  Lots of ladies don't do 'well' on utrogestan phase …….

[Chi chi]

Thanks CLKD I wish it was just the utro stage I felt rubbish on, I hardly ever take it  Over the last year I've probably taken it about 4 or 5 times ( usually 5-7 days each time) it just seems that things have gone downhill and the HRT isn't doing anything

[Taz2]

Hi Estelle - I don't know all of the in's and outs of your regime but is it right that you are taking double the amount of oestrogen if you have both implants and gel?

Also, it is really important that you take a progesterone regularly to prevent your womb lining building up which can put you at risk of endometrial cancer. Have you had any periods? Sorry if I've misunderstood.

Taz x 

[Chi chi]

Thanks Taz2, yes I've been having periods /bleeds. The reason I'm using the oestrogel as well as the implant is because I felt no better and my estrogen level actually halved after the implant was inserted 
Since topping up with the gel I've had a regular bleed for the last 2 months without the utro, this month the day that I should have come on came and went so I've just finished 7 days of the utro and am now waiting for the bleed.

The specialist I see was happy for me to not take the utro each month but maybe every other month or every 3rd month

[Taz2]

Ah thanks for the explanation. I suppose it must be your own cycle breaking through then?

I'm sorry you are feeling so awful still. Not sure what to suggest but I'm sure others will be along soon who can come up with something more useful!

Taz x 

[CLKD]

The hormones are working in that you get a bleed ……… maybe your own hormones are joining in ?  how do you spend your time?

[Dancinggirl]

Hi Estelle
You sound so stressed and at your wits end - sometimes you do need to stand back and try to look at things more objectively  - I know from experience that when you feel really rough, objectivity goes out the window but this is the time to really take stock and focus on what you are trying to achieve.
I will try to offer some objectivity:

I think you are seeing Professor Studd? Whilst he is one of the foremost experts on treating hormonal issues, having read posts from people who are seeing him, he doesn't seem to be good at listening and responding to his patient's concerns and explaining why he is recommending the treatment he has prescribed.
You are not alone in having problems with maintaining a good level of oestrogen - I have seen a few posts on MM from women who seem to have the same problem??!!  I find this baffling. To use such high levels of oestrogen and still not get a good absorption seems very strange to me. Do ask Studd to explain why you are not getting good oestrogen levels? Are you actually in peri meno?
Next time you see Studd, do write down your questions and concerns and give them to him - I find if I do this the doctors I see have to respond and it helps the appointment go more smoothly. I am seeing a gynae privately and he is very good at explaining things to me and discusses my options so I go away with a clear idea of what to expect.  I have learned a lot from MM and this has helped me to ask the right questions and understand what is involved.

You may not like what I am about to say to you but I hope these suggestions may help:

It is known that smoking can effect the absorption and effectiveness of oestrogen so I do think you need to find a way to stop or at least reduce your smoking. If you need ongoing hormone treatment giving up smoking will be essential and could make a big difference to your mood and wellbeing in the long term.
What about 'e cigarettes'?
Are you still on an AD/SRRI? If not maybe you still need this alongside your hormone treatment - many women need both.
What other lifestyle changes could you do to help improve your health and general welling e.g. CBT/Mindful Meditation/yoga/diet etc. Sometimes adopting a good routine of regular meals and exercise can help enormously.
What about seeing a dietician/nutritianist who could help you find some positive strategies to improve your lifestyle? Sometimes lack of vitamin D can be the cause of fatigue and low mood!

I also think that chopping and changing hormonal treatments seems to be non productive in trying to find a solution - your body simply doesn't know where it stands. Maybe stick with the Oestrogel which is easy to control and put up with feeling a bit rough for those few days each month on Utro? You will know what to expect and maybe by getting into a good routine your body will respond better. I actually feel pretty rough when I have my bleed but I know I have to put up with it to protect my womb lining. It is unrealistic to expect to feel good every day of the month.
I hope that helps DG xxx

[CLKD]

HORMONES   

Good advice DG - sometimes we put too many chemicals into our bodies and when our own hormones join in, it is too much for the body to deal with.  Keeping a food/mood diary can help too.

[dazned]

Is that correct a tube of testim gel a week and testosterone implant,surely that is too much ratio to estrogen for a woman 
But I'm not an expert it just seems very high.

[Chi chi]

Thanks for all the replies,
I really don't think I could give up smoking at the moment, I've got loads of different e-cigs but they just don't hit the spot  Proff Studd isn't very approachable, when I've questioned things in our appts he kind of skirts around the issue and basically it's "here take that and you'll feel better" he doesn't go into any real detail about why we feel like we do with hormones  he hasn't confirmed I'm actually in peri or not, another unanswered question 
I'm still on 2 AD's which prof studd said I shouldn't need but there's no way I could think about coming off them at the moment  Even though I'm not sure what exactly they are doing, I realise I could be worse without them but I also feel I should be better than I am.
I was deficient in Vit D and have been taking supplements since June last year, again no difference really. I still ache everywhere, daily headaches, fuzzy head, constantly going to wee, even through the night and now I keep getting water infections  lately I feel very wired but tired, I normally have no problem getting to sleep but for the last few weeks it's taking me ages to drift off and then I'm awake again going to wee 
I've put weight on especially on my tummy and I just want to eat all the time 

[Taz2]

Is that correct a tube of testim gel a week and testosterone implant,surely that is too much ratio to estrogen for a woman 
But I'm not an expert it just seems very high.

This does seem too much testosterone. Were you told to discontinue the Testim once you had the implant inserted Estelle. Sometimes these things get missed.

Taz x

[CLKD]

I was unable to get testosterone treatment 

Two different Anti-depressants  ………..

Your body won't know if it's flying a bike or riding a kite 

How's your diet?

[Chi chi]

  CLKD I do kinda feel like that! Diets not bad, we eat quite a bit of chicken, fish, rice, pasta and veg, I also eat quite a bit of salad too.

I did stop the testim when the implants were originally inserted, but as I wasn't feeling any better a couple of months in he said to top up with the  oestrogel he said I could also start the testim again to see if that would lift my mood a bit

[CLKD]

We eat well too.  I don't exercise enough though    ……… gardening is my main hobby = exercise.  My brain gets plenty of activity though, planning the borders 

Do you think you are in general though, kind of stable? but wanting more improvement?