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Author Topic: Conti Utrogestan  (Read 9854 times)

Dancinggirl

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Conti Utrogestan
« on: August 20, 2015, 03:33:32 PM »

Hi all
Ways of using Utrogestan seems to vary so greatly and though there are specific licensed guidelines, there is still the issue around the amount of oestrogen one can or should use alongside. 

I am currently using Oestrogel with Utrogestan sequentially. At 59, having the withdrawal bleeds is a nuisance as I get quite nasty cramps and quite a heavy bleed.  My gynae said he thought I could move to Utrogestan continuously as I am getting problems with erratic spotting and heavy bleeds but I am wary of using any progesterone continuously  -  I do feel a bit short tempered on Utrogestan although I think I am generally ok when I'm taking it. 
I am also using a very low dose of Oestrogel - about 1.25 pumps per day - which my gynae thought was probably a bit low to get a good balance of hormones - so I may need to increase this a bit.

I want to hear from any ladies using conti Utrogestan.
What amount of oestrogen do you use?
How long did any spotting last?  Do you still get the occasional spotting?
Do you generally feel better using it in the conti regime as opposed to sequi?
Also, do you take the 3 day break and, if so, do you get a bleed? Or do you just use it every day?

I hope this might be of use to many ladies out there?   DG xxx
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honeybun

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2015, 08:55:53 PM »

I would hate to be still having a bleed at 59   :o
At 55 I would not even contimplate any regime that meant that.

Women by nature are not supposed to be having a cycle at that age. Our fertile years are past so  bleeds should be a thing of the past.
I know that a lot of women....and rightly so ...try to use HRT in the most natural form possible....ie Utrogestan.

I don't know that I agree that triggering a bleed at this age is the best thing or the most natural but of course if we want to use oestrogen then progesterone has to play its part.

What the answer is I really don't know.

I use a half Evorel conti patch.

I have no bleeds but have the advantage of both oestrogen and progesterone.

If Mother Nature had intended us to be fertile into our 60s then menopause would never be an issue......but she didn't so therefore a no bleed regime must be the most natural scenario.

Honeybun
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meno lesley

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2015, 09:05:45 PM »

Hi

I am 57 and use utrogestan continuously alongside Elleste Solo 1mg. I was using Estrogel for a few years but was struggling. I do not have the 3 day break as I see Nick Panay in London who told me to use it continuously, I've had a few scans which do not show a build up in the lining of the womb.

Hope this helps you.

Lesley
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2015, 09:28:34 PM »

hooneybun - you make a very good point. I think my gynae would be happier if I was on conti Utrogestan as it probably causes less problems with erratic bleeding and there fore reduces the risk of womb cancer.  I am getting erratic spotting all through cycle now, even on the oestrogen only phase!!!  My thoughts around sticking to the sequi regime is to avoid too much progesterone of any kind. One has to take Utrogestan on an empty stomach and this is a discipline that can be challenging to maintain.  I have problems with VA and urethra pain so don't want to use Utrogestan vaginally. The progesterones in the conti patches are all synthetic which really don't agree with me so I feel Utrogestan is the only option for me. I always suffered cramps with my periods and later on with HRT sequi through my 40s (been on HRT since 37 due to prem meno) but the heavier bleeds with this new regime have been a surprise as I hadn't experienced such heavy bleeds ever before. Previously I had a Mirena for 4 years in my mid 50s which was OK but in hindsight I did get rather a lot of headaches and sedation with this. Utrogestan has not given me that many side effects.

Stellajane - I did reduce my oestrogen down to one pump per day and I am doing a slightly longer cycle - 3 weeks of Oestrogel and then 14 days of adding Utrogestan - so a 5 week cycle.  My problem is that my bleed starts on day 8 of the Utrogestan and then continues to about 5 days beyond the 14 days of Utrogestan.  I tried shortening the cycle to the the licensed regime but it made no difference. My feeling now is that I should perhaps try 1 - 1.5 pumps of oestrogel per day with 100 mg Utrogestan daily to see how that goes but I wanted to hear from others who do this or similar to see if it works OK. Also, is the 3 day break really important or can one simply take it continually? 

meno lesley - thanks for that feedback.  Did you get any spotting in the first few weeks? Do you get any spotting now? DG x
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honeybun

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2015, 09:35:15 PM »

Utrogestan gave me horrible cramps and very heavy bleeds. It also made my bladder ache so I can understand why you wouldn't want to use vaginally.

As you are going privately would your consultant not support a much longer cycle with a scan every year just to check things are the way they should be.

Can I ask what your long term plans are regarding bleeds. Surely you can't go into your mid 60s to 70 and still have a period.

Very difficult but it just doesn't seem right somehow.


Honeybun
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meno lesley

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2015, 05:44:35 AM »

Hi

I did get some spotting when I had the three day break but do not get any now.

Lesley x
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2015, 08:35:45 AM »

Thanks ladies - this is really helpful. I have just read the Utrogestan leaflet again - they seem to have re written it and in the side effects section it mentions erratic bleeding, cramps and heavy bleeds.  It does state that if you suffer with problematic bleeding then 'your doctor may adjust the way you use Utrogestan' - so I interpret this as possibly switching to taking it continuously.  The leaflet only states the sequi way to take Utrogestan - I'm sure previously it described the conti version as well?!!
I do seem to be getting cramps rather a lot - even during the Oestrogel phase so I think I will either have to switch to conti or perhaps try using Provera(MPA).  I haven't tried MPA so this might be OK for me, especially if I'm allowed to use it on a long cycle.
Being back on HRT has given me so many benefits - - being able to sleep has been great plus VA and burning has been much better - I generally have much more energy.  I really don't want to throw in the towel because of these cramps and the erratic spotting.
My gynae is lovely but I can't really afford to keep going back to him - my GP is simply following his instructions. I think at this stage I need to try one more cycle and then move onto the conti and move forward from there.
Any more feedback or thoughts anyone?
DG xxx
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Briony

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2015, 05:12:21 PM »

Someone recently directed me to these notes when I was considering taking Utro on a continuous basis; here it refers to both choices : http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/womens-health/medicines/utrogestan.html

I liked taking Utro but had terrible withdrawals after stopping it each month -  I developed post-MT! At the time my GP wouldn't consider letting me take 100mg for 26 days because I was 43 and still having regular periods. However, others on here in that situation do take it. There seems to be a fair difference in GP's approaches to this particular drug, doesn't there?

x
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Hurdity

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2015, 05:42:43 PM »

I would hate to be still having a bleed at 59   :o
At 55 I would not even contimplate any regime that meant that.

Women by nature are not supposed to be having a cycle at that age. Our fertile years are past so  bleeds should be a thing of the past.
I know that a lot of women....and rightly so ...try to use HRT in the most natural form possible....ie Utrogestan.

I don't know that I agree that triggering a bleed at this age is the best thing or the most natural but of course if we want to use oestrogen then progesterone has to play its part.

What the answer is I really don't know.

I use a half Evorel conti patch.

I have no bleeds but have the advantage of both oestrogen and progesterone.

If Mother Nature had intended us to be fertile into our 60s then menopause would never be an issue......but she didn't so therefore a no bleed regime must be the most natural scenario.

Honeybun
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Can I ask what your long term plans are regarding bleeds. Surely you can't go into your mid 60s to 70 and still have a period.

Very difficult but it just doesn't seem right somehow.

I would hate to take a synthetic progestogen such as norethisterone - found in Evorel conti on a continuous basis...

There are several of us on here in our 60's still on HRT and having bleeds - as you know I am one of them so surely I can (go into my mid 60's and have a bleed)? It may not seem right to you but actually, it does to me - well the least of evils at the moment - and it is no less natural than taking a synthetic progestogen continuously. We are all trying to work out how to stay healthy when we are likely to have one third of our lives or more in our "natural" hypo-oestrogenic state that characterises post-menopause - say from age 50 to 80.

There are several choices available once we are post-menopausal:

1 Stop taking oestrogen/HRT and accept the consequences - whatever they may be
2 Take HRT on a continuous combined (no bleed) basis - and thereby take continuous progestogen - either synthetic, or progesterone
3 Take HRT on a cyclical basis - which gives a withdrawal bleed.

None of these are more "right" than others, but we have to make this decision based on our own personal biology of our bodies, general health, and weighing up the objective scientific evidence of risk factors.

Many women experience unpleasant and debilitating side effects, and/or erratic bleeding from continuous progestogens and therefore either a regular/predictable bleed, or as long as possible on oestrogen only (ie long cycle) - are preferable.

Don't get me wrong - I most certainly don't enjoy having a bleed and would prefer not to have them, but I would rather do this than have to take progesterone all the time - although I am tempted sometimes (when the bleed happens) but I also usually want to throw in the towel and give up when I'm on the progesterone phase too - and wonder how much longer I can put up with it! It's a question as always of what makes us feel better for most of the time and has the least harmful effect on our health - short and long term (the latter we cannot know!). At the moment I feel so much better when on oestrogen only for 5-6 weeks it's worth it.

Dancinggirl - it is a difficult one. I do sometimes wonder about taking utrogestan 100 mg all the time but I know how I feel when I'm on it, especially after about 5 days in and until I stop, so the prospect is not attractive. In your position though - I wouldn't want to have those cramps. At the moment I only get them during the bleed as expected. It's great though that you are feeling generally better - but you are struggling with what all of us older women with wombs are having to do!

Briony - what you experience for the few days after you stop progesterone is a normal part of PMT. Progesterone is at its highest about a week following ovulation and the following week it declines rapdily (along with oestrogen) and that is when women often experience bad pms - from the oestrogen dip, and the progesterone withdrawal. With HRT this is prolonged in a 4 week cycle because there is often 14 days on progesterone and the few days after withdrawal possilby giving 2 1/2 to 3 weeks of pms instead of two!

Hurdity x
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Briony

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2015, 05:48:28 PM »


Briony - what you experience for the few days after you stop progesterone is a normal part of PMT. Progesterone is at its highest about a week following ovulation and the following week it declines rapdily (along with oestrogen) and that is when women often experience bad pms - from the oestrogen dip, and the progesterone withdrawal. With HRT this is prolonged in a 4 week cycle because there is often 14 days on progesterone and the few days after withdrawal possilby giving 2 1/2 to 3 weeks of pms instead of two!

Hurdity x


Thanks. Never thought of that before, but now you say it it seems so logical! x
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honeybun

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2015, 06:40:57 PM »

So are you saying that I am not doing the best I can by using a synthetic progesterone.

Urtogestan was a nightmare for me....absolutely horrible....but at least I'm not having a bleed which in my mind is far more natural than bleeding into my 60 and beyond.

It might seem right to you but it seems unnatural to me as that is not what nature intended.

I did say that I did not know what the answer would or should be. I don't think you can be sure of that either.

But...bleeding into your 60s to almost 70 or perhaps beyond is not natural nor ever will be. It's not how our bodies were intended to function.

What I take may not be anymore natural but being bleed free mimics the natural process slightly more so perhaps.

A lot of women are scared of life after meno...perhaps we are both guilty of that.

You don't have the definitive answer and neither do I.

Honeybun
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Limpy

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2015, 07:16:09 PM »

It's all quite difficult not straightforward at all.
I can sort of understand women wanting/needing to have bleeds to keep their womb lining thin.
However it wouldn't be my option of choice.
Some might say it's about as natural as the 65 year old German lady who gave birth to quadruplets this week.
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honeybun

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2015, 07:17:42 PM »

Which was not natural at all  ;D

Heaven help her....and her children too.


Honeybun
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Cassie

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2015, 07:27:02 PM »

1 and a bit pumps of oestrogel and 100mg of Utrogestan for 12 days works well for me will continue this regime as long as i can, dont mind the bleed its heavy for 2 days then tapers off the last 2 days, way prefer this than having to take Utro every day it keeps me awake and gives me tinnitus!
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Conti Utrogestan
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2015, 09:54:44 PM »

I actually know a lady who has used HRT well into her 80s and she kept to a sequential HRT!!!!
She has been amazing - continues to work and you can tell that her bones are really good.

I'm now on day 12 out of 14 days of Utrogestan 200mg and I've had a proper withdrawal bleed for the last 2 days - I will complete the 14 days as my gynae has prescribed.  On my last 2 cycles I started spotting by day 7 but the bleed didn't start properly till after I finished. If I still have quite a heavy bleed after finishing Utro this time, this could mean I'm bleeding for well over 12 days which can't be right!!! Whether I continue to bleed heavily this time will be interesting!!!  I've never had heavy bleeding before - so maybe I've developed a fibroid?!
I have actually felt Ok on the 200mg of Utro  - a bit tetchy and short tempered and I've slept quite well but with vivid dreams.  I've not had fatigue during the day, so I can't say it doesn't suit me generally - it's just this problem of the spotting and erratic bleeding.
I have this feeling that my body isn't metabolising Utrogestan properly for some reason or perhaps it's simply not right for me.  I think I may do a normal cycle of 14 days of oestrogen alone and 14 days of Utro next time to see whether this settles better and if not it's back to my gynae.
It's really helpful to hear everyones thoughts.
I do think that, whilst Utrogestan is the most natural form of progesterone and possibly ideal in many respects, it possibly isn't as stable and predictable to use as the more synthetic forms. 
Perhaps my year out from HRT resulted in my uterus going into deep atrophy and it's now struggling to cope with the hormones?
DG xxx
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