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[Rebelyell]

Not been on yet - but it sounds interesting!

[Rebelyell]

Very interesting - it became an ideological medical dispute between psychiatry and gyne medicine with John Studd on the hormone side vs a psychiatrist.   It was a bit depressing really as it is obvious that the two branches of medicine do not work together, and in fact appear to be at odds with regard to how to best treat peri depression.  Not much hope if those at the top of the menopausal tree are so far apart!

[GypsyRoseLee]

Such a shame. For me I know that physiological changes in my hormones cause the psychological issues of anxiety/low mood. There's no two ways about it.

When we flew back from holiday my anxiety was sky high, and only when we landed did I realise my patch had fallen off probably a good 18 hours earlier.

That to me proves that my issues are physiological.

[Mary G]

There does seems to be a link between falling oestrogen levels and depression and I know Professor Studd is convinced.  I would say that "if" you feel significantly better while taking the oestrogen part of HRT then for you personally, there is a link.  That said, some women don't feel any better with higher oestrogen levels which would suggest in their case, there must be another cause that needs to be treated with ADs.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Mary I also think if you have a history of nasty PMS and PND (like me) then it's much more likely you're overly sensitive to hormonal fluctuations during peri menopause.

For me, the horrible anxiety and feelings of dread feel identical to the ones I had when I had PND. So again I think they're caused by my hormones.

[Taz2]

The link is here if you want to listen. Starts at around 11m 57s http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b062kdd1

Taz x

[peegeetip]

The dilemma (and the subversive nature of how medicine is often dispensed)

If we supplied HRT earlier in peri then we'd soak up 99% of the cases that go on to AD's and the long waiting lists for psychiatry/cbt/therapy.

Are we looking at job creation and protection here!

Same goes for all these older ladies floating in and out of docs for "ladies" problems in later life.
Found out my mum has been one of them and the solution was sooo simple.
We could saved health service a fortune.

 

ps

just listened to the programme - what! They psychiatrists won't listen to the gynecologists. Sounds like we see whats really wrong with the medical side of things - too many ivory towers

No wonder we are in such a mess. If we used HRT initially first line in peri then surely that would leave those who really really need psychiatric intervention better treatment and not having the danger and indignity to queue with all those who perhaps do not really need that at a difficult and often dangerous time?

[peegeetip]

"not everyone does well on HRT"

This depends on when you start. From my view and from what I see a lot of ladies seem to leave it very/too late before trying HRT.
By that time hormone receptors are affected and other things happen that cant be reversed in terms of Breast and down below.
The positive effect HRT has on our mental well being has never fully been published as the programme mentioned.

If we started taking HRT earlier in peri or continued the pill till we crossover to HRT then I think there would be a huge difference.

Lots of ladies suddenly find themselves crashing in hormone terms after docs suddenly call a halt to the pill in late 30's and early 40's, without anything to fill the gap.

In terms of taking HRT If you think its not going to work, told its bad for you or there are other things you have to do, then its just not going to have a positive start. Especially if you've been suffering for years before this point too.

Half the battle with any treatment is being positive.
 

[honeybun]

And also.....some women manage just fine and float through meno with no problems at all. Then it's a case of no need for any medication at all

Wouldn't it be nice to be one of them 


Honeyb
X

[Dancinggirl]

Like all things, it should be an holistic approach. If GPs had the time to really listen, consider all the symptoms and offered a positive choice of treatments, then the menopause wouldn't be such a challenge for so many women. 
HRT doesn't suit everyone and, of course, carries some risks and side effects but I have real worries about the overuse of ADs/SRRIs as well - these don't suit everyone and can give some nasty side effects e.g. weight gain, sedative effect, gastric problems etc. - they don't always reduce meno symptoms either - and I keep hearing that women feel 'disengaged with life' when using ADs/SRRIs and this would really worry me.
It would be really helpful if the various specialists could at least recognise that there are different things at play when the meno hits.  There is doubt that more needs to be done to understand the effect of the menopause on our mental well-being.
Over the last 2 years I have experienced life with and without HRT. I had a one year break from HRT and I have now been back on HRT for 8 months - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the small amount of HRT I am using is having a very positive effect of my mental wellbeing. This positive effect could just be down to improved sleep but I think it's more than that.  DOCTORS NEED TO LISTEN TO WOMEN MORE - we might not need to visit the doctor so often if they did!! 
Perhaps GPs should have a series of standard questions they need to ask, just as they have for dementia, to help with diagnosis. I'm sure Dr Currie could put this questionnaire together.  Each women could fill in a form annually when they hit 45 which could chart their progress through the meno, then guidance offered depending on the severity of the symptoms. For those women who are embarrassed or get really stressed when seeing the GPs this might allow for easier discussions - especially if a symptom is very personal e.g. vaginal dryness or bladder problems. Perhaps this is too obvious?    DG x

[peegeetip]

Please bare in mind!

I've yet to meet one close friend or otherwise that has truely "sailed"

Suddenly a lot of couples I know of same age are splitting up and others seem remote from their spouses.

Husbands take to the shed, golf course or other pursuits

To put it bluntly, if you suddenly don't have sex with your husband anymore because you don't feel like it anymore then you might not be aware that VA is kinda having an effect. Both are pretty serious repercussions of not having your hormones around anymore. However if you asked two ladies then one might be devastated by the loss of both however another might describe themselves as sailing thru.
Its all a matter of perspective however loss of hormones only leads to one thing, this Natural diminishing effect we will all encounter as ladies.

If you look at the statistics the most popular time for people divorcing is around the menopause. The cost of that is huge alone without looking at the emotional and physical impact ladies are going through.

Scratch the surface and you'll find that every woman is affected by peri and meno in some way by the reduction then loss of her hormones.
Otherwise that would not be "Natural" would it
Sailing through is the like a man turning round and saying "I don't cry" both can be said, but both are highly unlikely.

DG - there have been questionaires on here (MM) but no results from this site on whats been said so far.  I think most docs are way too caught up to be even interested in initial questions/list of points when we first go with initial peri complaints.

Just had a look at the divorce stats and most "popular" time to divorce is when the woman is likely to be in the midst of peri, surely that cant be coincidence ?

[GypsyRoseLee]

I wonder if there are any enlightened GPs who keep certain patients on the Pill as they go into their 40s to try and protect them against the often devastating effects if hormonal changes during peri?

I believe I have essentially lost nearly 2 years of my life peri menopausal depression and anxiety and insomnia. I can't ever get these two years back.

I have a long histroy of PMS and PND all clearly documented in my medical notes. I really wish that I had somehow been flagged as being 'at risk' as I went into my 40s.

If a GP had warned me there was a strong risk I could experience a reoccurance of my PND symptoms in my early 40s, and they'd like me to go on the Pill I would have bitten their arm off in eagerness.

Instead I spent 8 months suffering the torments of the damned before I actually saw a GP who would take me seriously. And now a year on I am still not right. I think I have suffered so badly with anxiety and insomnia that they have left some deep scars which aren't ever going to fade.

[Limpy]

To put it bluntly, if you suddenly don't have sex with your husband anymore because you don't feel like it anymore then you might not be aware that VA is kinda having an effect. Both are pretty serious repercussions of not having your hormones around anymore. However if you asked two ladies then one might be devastated by the loss of both however another might describe themselves as sailing thru.

People have always reacted differently to the same medical situation.
Some women cope with meno, with or without HRT, they just get on with it.
PGT - you seem to think that women can not survive without using HRT.
HRT has helps me enormously but I would never tell anybody she has to use it to function.

[dazned]

A lot of us on here are using hrt and still far from being " all right " it's not this great panacea for everyone,we're all different. It's far to simplistic to say what does or doesn't work,each individual has to go with what's right for them.

[Taz2]

Just had a look at the divorce stats and most "popular" time to divorce is when the woman is likely to be in the midst of peri, surely that cant be coincidence ?

Just another take on this statistic. It doesn't say whether the couples are divorcing because the effects of peri menopause or menopause have been a bad thing. Maybe the women have been liberated by meno and want to start a new life.  They may have renewed energy and time, particularly if children have now left home, to be able to be their own person instead. Statistics are strange things!

Taz x