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[Greenfields]

I'm noticing a pattern with my sleep ... I have trouble getting off to sleep (I go to bed around 10/10.30pm), sleep fitfully (wake up and get up several times for a pee in the night) and then, without fail, I wake at 4.27am just as the birds begin to sing and I feel dreadfully tired.  I try to get back to sleep (often unsuccessfully) and then when my alarm goes off at 6.45am I reset it and usually get up around 7/7.30am.  Between 6.45am and when I get up, I often notice I have a racing heart and a sense of the jitters - so I have to consciously calm my body.

I'd really like to break this sleep pattern.

I'm doing all the sleep hygiene things I can think of.

One thing I have noticed is that even gentle yoga before I go to bed seems to make me more alert - so I'm actually thinking of doing my yoga practice earlier in the day.

I'm in my 3rd cycle of HRT now.  When I first started taking Utrogestan 100mg (for days 1 - 25) it had a lovely sedating effect.  I don't get that anymore.  I tend to take it either an hour before I go to bed or immediately before I go to bed.  (The other HRT I'm on is Evorel 50 patch).

I've been wondering whether the time I take it impacts my sleep pattern?

I know I have a lot on my mind and a lot of stress around my future (as well as recovering from a breakdown) ... so that might be why I'm waking up so early but I'd really like to figure out a way of managing this as, looking back through my journal, I can see it's gone on for a while now and it's wearing me down.

I'm more focused and competent than I was 3 months ago which is good but the sleep issues are not helping my stress levels.

Any suggestions appreciated.

[Dancinggirl]

I can totally relate to your sleep issues.  I haven't had a full nights sleep since I had my children and I hate dragging myself through the day after a bad night. I do find that if I get a run of particularly bad nights (the recent humid weather was terrible) I take a Nytol (not herbal but the one with anti histamine) for a couple of nights and this can break the pattern.
You have been through a lot and, as you mentioned, you are anxious about your future and recovering from the breakdown so I think you need to be kind to yourself as the recovery can be slow.
Unfortunately, 4am is the classic time to wake and then the mind dwells on all the things you least want to think about - so particularly tough.
It may be wise to move your yoga to early evening - I find even Mindful Meditation can make my palpations kick off.
Every time you start to worry about the future, just focus on something beautiful or the activity you are currently doing and pull yourself back to the here and now - live in the moment.  I've been back on HRT for around 7 months now and the real benefits kicked in a couple of months ago - I am generally sleeping much better.  DG x

[CLKD]

It's UK Summer time so Dawn creeps through the curtains and the birds begin tweeting 

Are you able to put black out curtains in the window ?  Maybe making a list of worries when you wake up and then drift back to sleep, a list might ease your mind a bit.

[Greenfields]

I can totally relate to your sleep issues.  I haven't had a full nights sleep since I had my children and I hate dragging myself through the day after a bad night. I do find that if I get a run of particularly bad nights (the recent humid weather was terrible) I take a Nytol (not herbal but the one with anti histamine) for a couple of nights and this can break the pattern.
You have been through a lot and, as you mentioned, you are anxious about your future and recovering from the breakdown so I think you need to be kind to yourself as the recovery can be slow.
Unfortunately, 4am is the classic time to wake and then the mind dwells on all the things you least want to think about - so particularly tough.
It may be wise to move your yoga to early evening - I find even Mindful Meditation can make my palpations kick off.
Every time you start to worry about the future, just focus on something beautiful or the activity you are currently doing and pull yourself back to the here and now - live in the moment.  I've been back on HRT for around 7 months now and the real benefits kicked in a couple of months ago - I am generally sleeping much better.  DG x

Is that the Nytol one a night or the Nytol Original that you take?  Just looked up the range online now.

I might give those a go as I definitely need to get more sleep.

I have thought about getting up at 4.27am - but even when I do (to have a pee) I'm usually just so so tired - but then I can't get back to sleep either - it feels like a vicious circle.  I have sometimes put a relaxation track on and that helps a bit so I might try and do that again. 

Thanks for the info about HRT - I certainly feel a lot better these days than I did 3 months ago.  Unfortunately if and when I move back to Canada I am going to have to switch from Evorel 50 to Estradot patches (as Evorel aren't available in Canada) - so I really hope that that doesn't mess with my body too much - going to ask the Dr that next week.

Thanks for your comments - they help! xxx

[Greenfields]

It's UK Summer time so Dawn creeps through the curtains and the birds begin tweeting 

Are you able to put black out curtains in the window ?  Maybe making a list of worries when you wake up and then drift back to sleep, a list might ease your mind a bit.

Yes got blackout blankets hanging up behind the landlord's curtains to block out the light but it doesn't seem to work in terms of changing my sleep pattern at the moment.  Don't think the hot humid weather has helped much either.

[CLKD]

Plus your racing mind  - are you aware of dreaming?

[Greenfields]

Plus your racing mind  - are you aware of dreaming?

Yes - actually talked to my lovely therapist about my dreams today.  One of the few blessings of my life at the moment is having that women in it - she's wonderful and I always leave feeling uplifted even though it costs me a lot of money to see her - it's worth every penny.

[Dancinggirl]

RE:  Nytol - I hasten to add there are other brands that do similar things and Boots have their own version.   I usually buy the two and night ones as I often find just one of these works a treat.  DG x

[CLKD]

It is nice to be able to vent/talk with a stranger who is being paid to listen!

[Hurdity]

Hi Greenfields

My first observation about what you've said is that you go to bed very early especially for the summer - don't know where you live but it's probably not even dark then. In your position, I would train myself to go to bed at least an hour later if possible.

You do have plenty of exercise in the day I seem to remember - this should help with sleep but as you say not just before bed - this isn't recommended.  If you have done a lot physically as well as having plenty of fresh air this helps with sleep. If you haven't had a physically active day then you probably don't need the sleep.

There are a whole list of things you should and shouldn't do before bed to help ensure a good night's sleep or at least to get to sleep initially. Lots of websites - I suggest you google. Here's one I picked at random when I googled "how to drop off to sleep"  http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2013/07/how-to-fall-asleep-in-less-than-30-seconds/ .  This one looks even better ( googled "top tips for getting to sleep": http://www.helpguide.org/articles/sleep/how-to-sleep-better.htm. Apologies if you've done all this and sucking eggs comes to mind!

There's all the stuff about not eating too close to bedtime, cutting caffeine from about 3 pm, not exercising closer than (not sure how long) before bed. No screens (TV, computer) in the time leading up to bed, sit in darkened room etc etc - there are lots more of these. I always read in bed for about half an hour until I practically drop off over the book.

I would find it difficult to get back to sleep if i woke at 4.30 too - I tend to sleep for very short bursts after about 4 am especially in the summer, until my morning tea appears around 7.15! Earplugs might help re the birds at this time of year.

If it's still dark when you get up to pee try keeping your eyes shut if you can (I usually feel my way round the bed and gingerly open one eye as if I open them fully I can't get back to sleep either.

I have much more disturbed sleep when I'm on the Utrogestan part of my cycle even though I use it vaginally, and it's supposed to be a sedative - it makes me dream vividly (which is less relaxing) as well as get up to pee! When I wake in the morning it makes me feel more tired than usual. If you are taking it days 1-25 then this could be contributing to your sleep disturbance if you are sensitive.

Don't worry about the Estradot - it's what I've always used pretty much - and they're brill. You really shouldn't notice the slight change as both are designed to deliver 50 mcg estradiol per day.

Good luck!

Hurdity x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Greenfields

Yes I remember trying to get by on what I called 'thin quality' sleep. And I got into the habit of waking between 4 and 5 not feeling remotely rested. My head just used to feel empty and stretched too thinly, quite nasty really.

Touch wood my HRT seems to have pretty much stopped this happening (I'm on my third cycle too) though I am sending to still wake very early. But the difference is that I easily slip back into sleep and that I now wake feeling rested again.

Have you tried wearing ear plugs and wearing a soft eye mask? I felt my brain had got into a very unpleasant habit of waking early and the pattern needed to be broken.

[CLKD]

I often drop off to sleep in my bath, waking when the water goes cold; or over a book …….. busy dreams leave my brain tired in the mornings; fortunately I don't wake as often in the early hours but accept it if I do.  Sometimes my brain would like to remain in bed a lot longer than the rest of me 

[Greenfields]

"I have much more disturbed sleep when I'm on the Utrogestan part of my cycle even though I use it vaginally, and it's supposed to be a sedative - it makes me dream vividly (which is less relaxing) as well as get up to pee! When I wake in the morning it makes me feel more tired than usual. If you are taking it days 1-25 then this could be contributing to your sleep disturbance if you are sensitive."


Hurdity thank you very much for that info - I will ask my Dr. when I see her.  I have been very gassy of late as well as getting up to pee.


Last night I used my earplugs for the first time in a while - I woke up at 3.30am to pee but then slept till my alarm went off so I wasn't disturbed by the bird song - which really helped.  So I think I am going to wear ear plugs to bed for the time being.


I only drink herbal tea now and follow all the other sleep hygiene rules though.  Having said that I am going to try a sleep mask as well.  I looked online but they all seem to vary so much - so I bought a cheap travel one in Boots today but I have to say, having tried it on today, I'm not sure how well it's going to work - it seems to let light in around near the nose.  But if it helps a bit more, it will be worth it.  I'm a side sleeper and a lot of the more structured sleep masks online were criticized in reviews for being uncomfortable for side sleepers - if anyone has got any suggestions for good sleep masks, please post here.


If the Boots mask doesn't work, I'll take it back as they charged 4.99 for the mask and a set of earplugs and it doesn't look that substantial for the money.   

[honeybun]

I hated Utrogestan although I thought it would be the answer to all my problems. I used vaginally and it made me pee more, it gave me a painful bladder and also....very disturbed sleep. I was using the same as you.

I know it's supposed to be the holy grail of progesterones.....well not for me.

It could well be that, that is disturbing your sleep.


Honeybun
X

[Greenfields]

I hated Utrogestan although I thought it would be the answer to all my problems. I used vaginally and it made me pee more, it gave me a painful bladder and also....very disturbed sleep. I was using the same as you.

I know it's supposed to be the holy grail of progesterones.....well not for me.

It could well be that, that is disturbing your sleep.


Honeybun
X

What are you taking now Honeybun?  I just hadn't connected my symptoms with Utrogestan until people started posting about them in response to my queries ... like you, I thought it would sort everything out!