Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[bramble]

I'm with HB on Jan de Vries. I have used him in the past and found him very good. I have also used another homeopathic doctor(also practises as a NHS gp) locally for migraine help and it was magic. But I do agree that we need to be careful no matter what we take and do a bit of research first.
Bramble

[Suzi Q]

Yes I worry. I worry very much.

Millions of pounds every year is spent on 'natural' remedies which have not been proven in any way whatsoever. Often these natural remedies cost 3-4 times more than a NHS prescription.

I will never understand why people waste their money on these bogus medicines. Their effect is entirely psychosomatic. A world authority on alternative medicine and lecturer based at Exeter University (can't remember his name for the moment) spent years conducting an investigative study which showed that only Black Cohosh and St John's Wort had some SLIGHT benefits. All the rest were just pointless placebos.

I'm sure people just buy into the romantic ideal that their herbalist/homeopath gets up on a summer's dawn to hand pick wild herbs and flowers growing free in the hedgerows, before carefully distilling them down into magical potions 

Instead, of course, these alternative practitioners source their pills and potions from the cheapest supplier, who is entirely unregulated and selling products that haven't been scientifically tested or analysed in anyway. It's dangerous and delusional.

Yes, people had to make do with herbs and home grown medicinal remedies for thousands of years. And that's why mortality rates were so incredibly high until the advent of modern medicine. People back in medieval times, suffering with God knows what illnesses and ailments, would have thanked their lucky stars to have access to the drugs we have nowadays. They'd have sprinted out of their local hedgewitches' hovel or apothecary's shop faster than you could blink to get their hands on modern medicine.

Yet, ironically we now have millions of people keen to try tinctures and pills that were doing the rounds 800 years ago. They didn't work back then and they don't work now.

AS much as Id hate to disagree with you sadly your right

[babyjane]

overnight I have been thinking about this placebo question and just want to add my 2 pennyworth for the sake of the discussion.

If something gives a placebo effect, ie a psychological improvement, does that really matter if the user is getting relief from whatever troubles them? It is not going to be considered a waste of money for them if they feel better.

I use a magnetic collar on my dog for his spondylosis in his spine.  Within a few days of putting it on his mobility was easier and it has stayed that way.  A couple of people told me it was a placebo effect but how can that be?  He doesn't know he is wearing a magnet! Someone else said he is more relaxed because I am more relaxed (a word I would never use about myself  ) but I only felt better for him after I saw improvement.

Anyway that's beside the point. If something makes us feel psychologically better then it is not a waste of time or money in my opinion.

Valerian is another thing I occasionally use, for myself and also for my dog because we are both stress heads, and it helps    I think so long as the product has the THR endorsement and your doctor knows you are using it then there is little to get alarmed about. 

[Dulciana]

Yes, there is definitely room for natural remedies.  I decided to stop taking Menopace tablets for a while and after a couple of weeks, my mood was deteriorating on a daily basis, to the point where I know I was becoming difficult to live with.  I went back to Menopace and within a very short time, I was my old self again. 

[Dancinggirl]

I think Brightlight actually expressed things very well and I'm pleased to hear that many of you are agreeing that herbs and remedies should be approached with caution.  Herbs etc. have some strong properties that can do good but also harm. I just wanted to highlight this - just because something comes from 'Nature' it isn't necessarily 'SAFE'.  Thanks for all your input ladies.  DG x

[Dulciana]

Nor is it necessarily unsafe.......

[honeybun]

Well said Dulciana.

Alternative medicine covers such a wide range of things from massage to acupuncture. It simply cannot be dismissed.
Of course taking too much of anything is not advised. Doctors are good at overprescribing. It's usually a pharmacist that picks up on drug interactions.

The overuse of medicines is causing concern. People want a pill for everything whereas if we took a more holistic approach perhaps problems would not arrise quite so often.


Honeyb
x

[peegeetip]

Not sure on the overuse of drugs aspect of doctors.
Personally I've seen doc's give someone a prescription then fail to review them regularly within my own family.
Either due to lack of time, resource, will etc.
This is based on direct experience.

From my own family I'm the only one that receives a regular reminder to return for the regular HRT inquisition
Others in my family just continue to take their drugs and these get added to as they get older.
I have a relation who is on a drug thats for "short" usage (weeks) duration only and they've been on this drug without review for years!!!

If anything they under use HRT options and then options start to diminish as there is no call for that option.
When things get more popular we're then faced with shortages or worse.

For example, the Ladies dose testosterone is a good example of this situation.
We had an option out there to help alleviate libido issues amongst other issues.
Doc's ignored the option and a few years ago it was taken off the market as it was not being prescribed.
Now we have to beg for off licence mens products which is just stupid.
We also see loss of progesterone options at certain dosages. Again due to a lack of prescribing in the community.

Use it or lose it someone else said on the forum a few times.

In terms of the "non-hormone" or herbal/naturale route I think some should perhaps be following some of the ongoing issues in that area.
That might open some eyes on the forum to whats going on out there.

The following example shows that they are adding a drug that was shown to have severe heart and stroke side effects to a herbal remedy (probably because the herb did not work and they want to ensure people come back and buy more!).

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/criem/2015/213874/

Studies have also found that often the labels and the contents don't match. There is often contamination with cheaper alternatives or totally different plant species.

http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6138
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12867165
http://edzardernst.com/2013/01/contamination-and-adulteration-of-herbal-remedies/

To quote "the most commonly found contaminants were dust, pollen, insects, rodents, parasites, microbes, fungi, mould, pesticides, and heavy metals. The adulterants invariably were prescription drugs such as steroids, anti-diabetic medications etc."

Even the WHO have tried to put forward guidelines to improve this.
http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/documents/s14878e/s14878e.pdf

The heavy metals in a lot of these items has been well known for years.
I'm pretty darn sure my HRT is heavy metal free and free from some of these unsavory items above.

Is it not bad enough that we are confused by closely monitored and controlled drugs that our docs are relucant to prescribed to us.

Why give hope to solutions that may or may not be what they say they are.

We all need to see things clearly and stop wrapping things up in warm sentiment of the "natural" solution.
I understand some want this and need help from it.
I'm sure most of us have no problem with that. I've no problem what others want to take

I just dearly hope that they are aware of all the aspects of their own non-hormone/herbal choices in the same we are not allowed to forgot when using HRT.

[honeybun]

Overuse of drugs by doctors......antibiotics 


Honeybun

[honeybun]

Perhaps these links balance things out a little


http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/othertechs.phpw
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/remedies.php
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/phytoestrogens.php


There are two sides to every story.

Hopefully these might help just a little


Honeybun
X

[CLKD]

Nowt wrong with the placebo effect!  Sometimes it is because the sufferer is being listened to, that may be enough to begin a healing process.  If you really want to know if a suggested herbal remedy or if there is enough research in a medication, then browse Ben Goldacre, he has been nagging away at various suggestions for years, putting his own money into his own research to get results! 

I tried to get help years++ ago by visiting a Chinese alternative therapist - he was a GP who had spent years in China as he had an interest in other healing preparations, however, when he couldn't tell me why I couldn't drink coffee or use peppermint with what he sold me, I felt suspicious.  I paid for the Consultant, I found him very interesting and had I not been so ill I may well have talked more with him ………. whether the stuff he sold me did any good: or not: I can't remember. 

'natural' doesn't mean 'safe' : arsenic is 'natural' 

[BrightLight]

The placebo effect is a fascinating topic.

Psychological attitude has a huge part to play in our health I think. I was recently involved in making a song with a choir for a singer who has been diagnosed with stage IV breast cancer. Non curable but treatable. The prognosis depends on various factors and one of them is patient attitude and mindset.

Thank you Dancing Girl

[Dana]

My personal opinion is that a lot of these so-called natural remedies are a waste of money. That's not to say that for some people they may work. It's just that for me they never have.

I spent a fortune (roughly $3000) going to a naturopath to be treated "naturally" for menopause, and after 3 months my symptoms were actually far worse. She simply dismissed it as me being a "tough case", and I would need to spend another 3 months (plus another $3000 presumably) for my problems to be solved. Meanwhile, my "tough case" was solved pretty quickly as soon as I got on to proper hormone treatment.

What people need to remember is that these "natural" treatments really aren't that natural. They are made in labs and they may contain various unknown and untested ingredients, and there is little regulation. That's not really what I would call natural. Certainly prescribed medicines are also made in labs, but at least they have very stringent regulations and quality standards applied to them.

Also, just because something is a prescribed medicine, doesn't mean it doesn't come from a "natural" source. Similarly, just because something is deemed natural doesn't mean it is automatically safe to consume.

I will add that I don't have an issue with anyone who choses to use alternative or natural remedies, or disbelieve anyone who sees genuine benefits. I personally use supplements like Vit D and Omega etc, but I always get a bit concerned when I see people advocating "natural" at the expense of tried and tested prescription meds.

[Night_Owl]

I view the (ultra-low dose) HRT that I take as pretty much 'natural' - from what I've read, the Estraderm patch and Utrogestan are plant and soy derived.

[Limpy]

If something gives a placebo effect, ie a psychological improvement, does that really matter if the user is getting relief from whatever troubles them? It is not going to be considered a waste of money for them if they feel better.

If something works, I don't think it matters if is it is a placebo effect, it works.

I seem to remember reading something that the "placebo" effect is like a trained response of the body. If you expect something to happen, the brain alters the body chemistry to make it happen, think, Pavlovs's dog. Another thing, is that it is possible for people to can control their heartbeat (to varying degrees) by thought, skilled yoga exponents are very good at it.