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[GypsyRoseLee]

Decided to get a definitive answer from the manufacturers of Estradot, to see if a spray tan will stop the absorption of oestrogen from a transdermal patch. I also used a very rich moisturising shower crème whilst on holiday, and wondered if this created some sort of barrier too?

I have searched the Internet but haven't found any answers.

It's the only logical explanation I can think of for why I began to feel worse and worse while away? Then of course it culminated with my patch actually falling off at some point, so I could have been patchless for over 36 hours 

If it wasn't due to poor absorption then I don't know what it was? Especially as that week should have been my 'good' week i.e. just finished with drawl bleed and moving toward ovulation etc. So it was very strange.

Friday and yesterday I felt dreadfully low. The sort of horrible low where you just want to step under a bus to make it all stop  I ended up in floods of tears and my lovely husband was very kind, but was clearly very worried that I was so upset and miserable  He's never seen me like this except for when I had PND. 

Thank God my mood started to slightly improve last night, and today I feel better but still quite shaky and drained.

Hopefully the manufacturers will reply, and I will post their answer on here so that others can be forewarned.

[honeybun]

I can go over four weeks before I feel any different without a patch. I am much further along the meno road than you though.
Hopefully the manufacturer will give you a definitive answer but it might be that your own hormones are still very up and down.

Let us know.

Honeybun
X

[GypsyRoseLee]

Yes, I'd like to know either way honeybun. I'm only 8 weeks into HRT, so it's still early days and I have yet to have a 'proper' full 28 cycle. Because the first month I started HRT mid cycle, so only had 2 days with a patch before starting Utro. Then the second month I delayed taking the Utro by 2 weeks until we came back off holiday (only started taking it 2 nights ago).

I know I need to give the HRT at least another month or two. But if after that time, my own hormones are still going to be so up and down to this extent, then I will need to look at something stronger, like Qlaira, in order to control my hormones better.

I honestly can't bear many more days like yesterday. I honestly felt like throwing myself under a bus I felt so bad, then spent a good part of the evening crying on my husband's shoulder. It's no life for me (or him and my family).

[CLKD]

These too will pass.  I had a very low few days and was getting scared again.  I tried to take my advice, don't look further than half an hour at a time.  I have eaten better today and don't feel queasy which really really helps.

[GypsyRoseLee]

I really, really hope so CLKD. This nightmare has been going on for over 18 months now. Just constantly up and down, but mainly more down, and when I mean 'down' I don't just mean fed-up. It frightens me how very low I can feel. Yesterday I just lay on the sofa, barely speaking, just staring at the wall while pretending to watch TV. Couldn't bear any noise at all and actually shouted at my daughter for giggling too loudly, which I am very ashamed about 

I do get 'good' days thank God, often quite a few of them together. I've just had a run of 16 'good' days which ended last Sunday. If I didn't have these then I think I would be in a psychiatric ward by now.

I'm sorry you've been feeling extra low. Any idea what has triggered it?

I don't know if mine was caused by my bloody spray tan, or whether my own hormones are still too all over the place. Though it 'should' have been one of my good weeks, in the run up to ovulation, when pre HRT I would have been at my best.

[Briony]

Not much more I can add, but just wanted to send you a sympathetic hug. Please don't beat yourself up about feeling guilty for being cross with your daughter. We have enough to battle with our hormones without making ourselves feel even worse for things we can't control. I know it's hard, but remember, when things are tough, that they will improve. Be kind to yourself and remember you're not alone.

Take care xxxx

[scriv]

I wore a patch for many years and seem to remember the guidelines were to put the patch on skin which is clean, dry but not moisturised or oiled or greased.

So I am wondering whether your creams may well have formed a barrier and the oestrogen is not getting absorbed?

[Taz2]

You are right scriv. The patch has to be put onto dry skin. The use of creams or oils will affect the absorption. It should say this on the patient information leaflet "The site of application must be rotated, with an interval of at least 1 week allowed between
applications to a particular site. The area selected should not be oily, damaged or irritated.
The waistline should be avoided, since tight clothing may dislodge the patch."

Are you also on anti depressants gypsy? It seems as if you would benefit from both HRT and anti-d's to be honest. I didn't find that HRT lifted my mood very much. It was great in getting rid of the hot sweats and improving skin and hair but didn't really change how I felt emotionally. Let us know what the manufacturers say.

Taz x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Taz

I just don't know what to do. I will have been on HRT for nine weeks this week and I'm still so up and down all the time. I am feeling slightly better than I did at the weekend but I still feel extremely flat and low. Everything seems pointless and it's a real effort to appear normal and interact with people at work. Basically I just want to sit on the sofa and stare at the wall.

Yet when I check back in my mood diary I have also had lots of days these last 9 weeks where I have written that I feel really well and optimistic. And I can feel like that for up to 2 weeks at a time before I crash down again then I get days of feeling absolutely awful and very low.

It's obviously my hormones causing the problems, else I would just feel like crap all the time. But I'm wondering if HRT just isn't that good at controlling the emotional roller coaster that comes with peri menopause? My GP told me that the added oestrogen would raise my emotional 'base line' and that I wouldn't dip below it. But God knows I certainly feel I have well and truly dipped below it and have scraped the bottom these last few days.

[CLKD]

If there is a barrier: spray tan for example: then maybe there isn't enough active ingredient getting through, so your own hormones are still over-coming the product? 

However, depression can be managed.  I can't remember whether you have tried anti-depressant medication  (meno brain  ) but perhaps if you don't have side-effects to ADs, now would be the time to have a low-maitenance dose?  Even with my 5mg night and morning I was quite scared over the weekend - I got low during last week quite quickly.  Felt better yesterday and not too bad so far today, apart from being very tired.

If you can tolerate ADs try 8-12 months? after all, we are getting to *that* time of year [Christmas ]

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi CLKD

I was on ADs for nearly 3 years a long time ago when I had PND. I didn't like the way they made me feel emotionally quite numb. Though they stopped the deep depression and the anxiety. I tried sertraline and prozac but both made me feel like a robot.

Last year I tried amitriptyline for 6 months. It seemed to work but you feel quite spaced out and dreamy on it. Plus I gained a stone in weight, but that was my own doing as the amitriptyline stops you caring if you look fat.

Unfortunately because it makes you quite foggy headed I can't honestly remember if I still experienced any down days or anxiety while on it?

But to be honest feeling foggy headed and a bit dreamy is infinitely preferable to these awful lows I still seem to get.

Othwrwise I have heard that taking the Pill can completely knock your own hormones on the head and stabilise you. But when I took the Pill I still used to get PMS so I'm not so sure it would control my hormones enough. Though I could easily cope with regular PMS for a few days a month. The lows and anxieties I get now ate so much worse than any PMS I used to get.

[CLKD]

There are lots of ADs to try but it can be a bit of a Trial at a time when we need support: yesterday  .  I feel slightly hung-over every day but it is preferable to not being able to get out of bed or worse.  DH and I have a Life together most days ;-).

The brain is an organ which we forget to support.  The longer it is depressed the longer it can take to lift it.  We shouldn't blame meno on everything  even if it's connected to hormone upheaval. 

How about trying The Pill but eating every 3 hours 24/7? 

[GypsyRoseLee]

I'm willing to try anything. If I thought it was just normal depression then I'd happily take ADs. But it can't be as I can feel fine for a whole fortnight. Earlier this year I felt fine for a whole 5 weeks! So it has to be hormonal.

But I am losing faith in hormonal treatments. I would like some definite proof that the Pill WILL work. But then my gynaecologist assured me I would feel 100 times better with an oestrogen patch and I haven't done yet. Well only for a Max if 2 weeks before it all comes crashing down.

[GeordieGirl]

But I am losing faith in hormonal treatments. I would like some definite proof that the Pill WILL work. But then my gynaecologist assured me I would feel 100 times better with an oestrogen patch and I haven't done yet. Well only for a Max if 2 weeks before it all comes crashing down.

But if you're applying a patch on top of a spray tan isn't that why it's not working?  How long have you used it without it falling / peeling off? Are you applying it to fresh, dry skin? 

GG x

[GeordieGirl]

I've just read the answer to this - 9 weeks and only a few days for the Utrogestan.  Still early days, particularly if it's been conflicting with the tan (which incidentally is putting a cocktail of up to 45 chemicals onto your skin, one of which is suspected as toxic).  Rather than throw the baby away with the bath water, if you're insistent the HRT isn't working, why not try tweaking the dose ?  Probably best to do this with your GP's say so, or at least some expert advice, but it may be worth giving it more of a chance.

GG X