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[GypsyRoseLee]

My consultant advised me to stop taking my Utro this month after only 4 days to avoid my mood really dipping when I have my withdrawal bleed just as we go on holiday.

Obviously it wasn't guaranteed I'd have another bad mood dip this time but I didn't want to risk it.

I am on day 21 of my cycle and would usually expect my period to start on day 26/27.

Will I still have a period this month even without taking Utrogestan? I have increased my patch to 50mg too so will this make it less likely I would have a period this month?

Before I started HRT my periods were light but still regular.

[Annie0710]

I can't answer as apart from my own natural progesterone that I once had I don't replace because of hysterectomy but Can I just ask something that's baffling me with progesterone replacement ?

I hear often women saying they dread the dip ? Is that because you are all fine when taking it then dip when you stop ?

I'm definitely progesterone deficient (high levels of oestrogen ) and it's something I want to ask when my appt comes through with the gynaecologist . 


Sorry I can't help you :-(

Annie

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Annie

I was very up and down when I first started the Utrogestan, but I started my HRT mid cycle so began the Utro almt straight away. I actually think my GP mid advised me. He should have told me to wait until the first day of my next period. But hey ho!

My first few days on the Utro were very up and down. But after 6 days I really settled down and I was fine. It seemed to help my sleep too.

But 4 days after I stopped taking it my mood seriously dipped and my withdrawal bleed began. I felt very low and anxious for the next few days until my bleed finished. Then my mood really lifted again and I felt great.

I understand the mood dip is due to the withdrawal from progesterone?

I didn't want to risk a similar dip this month so on my consultant's advice I stopped the Utro a few days ago. But I feel very low today. I just hope my mood lifts before we go away next week. Else all of this will have been for nothing.

[Annie0710]

Bless you I hope you will be fine

It's all confusing isn't it ? So when you were naturally menstruating before peri started did you ever feel the dips when progesterone was low ?

I never changed in any way when I used to have periods, no food cravings, no tears, no mood changes etc
The only thing that started to happen was thrush at the end of a period

Once I had my hysterectomy and ovaries failed I was put on oestrogen and every few months I would get sore breasts, I presume when I was on occasion ovulating, but nothing since last October

So my thoughts lead me to thinking that because I never suffered with the progesterone changes years ago my symptoms might be that my body is yearning for progesterone to balance the oestrogen out ? I probably over think too simply not taking into account how complicated all this is

I certainly will ask though just in case I'm right

I feel for all you ladies when you worry about the dips :-(

Thank you for taking time to answer my question xxx

Annie

[GypsyRoseLee]

I have always suffered with PMS which I think is your body reacting to progesterone withdrawal. The PMS would begin about 5 days before my period then would disappear when my period started.

When my peri journey began I noticed my PMS was starting earlier and lasting until after my period finished. I hope you get a clear answer to your questions. What I hate about all this is how vague and trial and error it all is.

[Annie0710]

Thank you

It does make sense then doesn't it why you're feeling the way you are

Years ago my contraception was a pill with 3 different strengths each week , I was great on that, it's sad hrt isn't in strengths throughout the month


Annie

[GypsyRoseLee]

I think you 'can' get a brand of Pill that has varying strengths Annie. I can't think of the name but I know a few women on here are on it. It's meant to closely mimic your natural cycle rather than just blanket oestrogen/progesterone.

Perhaps google it to see?

[Hurdity]

Hi there GypsyRoseLee and Annie - I gave a somewhat detailed explanation of how I understand pms and its relation to hormones on your other thread.

In terms of whether you will get a period or not - for a start you have taken some progesterone and the body usually reacts to the fall in progesterone to produce a bleed where the lining has previously been stimulated by oestrogen - which is what's happened with you. It is dose dependent so you need a certain amount of progesterone to ensure shedding of a certain amount of lining (which grows according to how much oestrogen there is). Therefore some of the lining should be shed - but maybe not all.

However if you are ovulating then you will also be producing your own oestrogen and progesterone and that should be sufficient to produce a bleed as well. Exactly when you will bleed is difficult to determine because of how strong your own cycle is.

Annie - high levels of oestrogen don't mean you are progesterone deficient as such - as I explained on the other thread - oestrogen levels are high at ovulation and then fall when progesterone rises. If you are only just experiencing symptoms now, despite what was said to you earlier in your reproductive life, then your oestrogen is probably falling now as your ovaries have packed up completely and you were probably ovulating from time to time every few months as you experienced - and at these times you would produce progesterone too as well as oestrogen. This means your ovaries hadn't completely packed up. Therefore you were producing oestrogen and progesterone over the years and as I said what you are experiencing now are normal menopause symptoms of oestrogen deficiency. Your body doesn't "yearn" for progesterone - it is still being produced by the adrenal glands, but obviously doesn't need to be at very high quantities as you are not ovulating. The very high amounts are to prepare the womb for pregnancy.

You're right it aint half complicated!!!!

There is an HRT type that varies in strength called Trisequens but uses the synthetic progestogen norethisterone http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/perimeno.php . Also the pill that varies is oestrogen strength is called Qlaira - uses bioidentical estradiol as with HRT.

Hurdity x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thank you again Hurdity 

In a weird way I am keeping my fingers crossed that I do have a period within the next week, as at least that way I can (hopefully) look forward to the usual rise in oestrogen/mood from about day 5 of my cycle.

I think I was panicking that by doubling my oestrogen dosage and not taking any Utro I would perhaps overload myself with oestrogen over the next couple of weeks and cause negative symptoms like added anxiety/jitteriness, as I understand that high oestrogen can do that?

But how you've so clearly explained things I realise now that that is unlikely to be the case. I have to ask are you a GP with a special interest in menopause? You are so knowledgeable and explain things so clearly, I assume you must be?

Thank you again. You have really helped me tonight when I really needed it xxx 

[Annie0710]

Hi Hurdity

I seem to be forever thanking you for your knowledge and explanations !

I can only go by things GPS have told me, way back years ago when I had my hysterectomy within (I think) 6 months I started to feel very poorly, I can't remember all the symptoms but I remember feeling very weak, tired, drenched during the night, the pool of water would be between the breasts and I'd wake feeling so cold and shocked that I was so wet ! That was every night, I also remember itching bad like ants crawling all over me. From what I remember this was a sudden onset, and vaginak dryness.  Saw my lovely (then) gp who had seen me through my pregnancies and miscarriages and straight away said she thinks my ovaries were failing, she ordered blood tests and gave me a nenopause leaflet (I had no pc/internet in those days), I had all but one symptom, that being hot flushes (still don't get them), she explained that this can happen when ovaries are left after hysterectomy, it did sadden me as that was the reason I chose to leave the ovaries, so that this would happen at the appropriate age. Anyhow oestrogen level came back at 100 and something and she said at my age she would expect it to be much much higher so put me on elleste solo, it worked within days and I never thought about hormones again until 13 years later, my recent blood tests have been oestradiol 700s and progesterone consistently low (0.1 and 1.1) are the 2 most recent that I've asked to know

As I've been supplementing oestrogen at a high dose all these years I've always known it couldn't be lack of oestrogen causing these menopausal symptoms

Incidentally, I do think that during those years before peri my ovaries did release eggs, maybe once every 2-4 months if I go by tender breasts that would last a few days, the last time that happened was September 2014

I can't think what else, apart from testosterone or progesterone can be causing my symptoms
And I've never had testosterone mentioned and I'm repeatedly told I can't have progesterone because I don't have a uterus and maybe I'm totally wrong but surely it's a balance my body is needing ? Also sometimes don't women have adrenal gland depletion or something ?

You watch, after all this it'll probably end up thyroid or something lol but they promise me they've tested that and I was within normal range


Annie