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[BrightLight]

DancingGirl - yes, do the classes again   One of the things over the last year, which I now realise my hormones were part of, is that I have really stopped being so in my body, I have had achey shoulders and general lack of fluidity.  I am getting it back now and really agree with you about mind/body connection with certain activities.  When you have to follow some rules or technique and move at the same time it's so good for everything. 

I am definately hating the gravity

[Hurdity]

BrightLight if you are interested in finding out about natural progesterone cream check out

Its a British site, you can buy the cream there as well as a combined cream with estrogen called 20-1 cream. (not to be used with conventional HRT)

You will find many women and doctors talking about it.

They have a free downloadable e book.

Another thought its nice to know that if Doctors insist that women come of HRT at 60 there is something they can use for themselves to ease the shock of abrupt drop in hormones.

silverlady - you know commercial links are not permitted on this site - the link is to the site which sells the cream ( I have omitted the link from the quote) and as such is promoting that particular cream which the company itself does.

Also re coming off HRT at 60 or any particular age - buying progesterone cream will not ease the drop in hormones - the way to do this if needed is to eg cut patches or take the pills every alternate day ie a tailing off regime - not to switch to buying an unproven commercial cream!!! It is the drop in oestrogen our bodies need to acclimatise to.

BrightLight - I can see you are reading as much as you can and trying to find out about all aspects of menopause and treatements for it - but I'm afraid you won't get a balanced reply from wellsprings as it is in their interests to sell it to you. It is just the women in your position - entering peri-menopause when symptoms tend to come and go as cycles become irregular and hormone leves fluctuate - the these products are targeted at.

For you and anyone else reading this I urge to to read this American neutral ( ie not a company) academic review of bio-identical hormones which includes progesterone cream. The US (science mainstream) is concerned about all the hype and the big marketing machine and theories behind all this too!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219716/

The paper is thorough but the abstract is brief and to the point:

Progesterone creams and natural or bioidentical compounded estrogen preparations are being promoted to consumers as safe alternatives to conventional menopausal hormone therapy and as health-promoting tonics. No reliable data support these claims.

I realise you have issues about bio-identical hormones too (I presume you mean the unregulated compounded ones) but it is worth reading. 

Hating the gravity?! Is that what I think you mean?  I understand your shock in the changes that are happening to your body - I've got used to mine now but do look in horror sometimes when I'm on the floor in my exercise classes when I see the skin hanging from my upper arm   

Dancinggirl - I wouldn't find it possible to get stressed in Pilates because of the work involved in all the muscle groups and the concentration on repetitions or holding a difficult position. I do wish for it to end though sometimes! Also the Zumba class - which is a type of fitness dancing I suppose - involves an enormous amount of brain work, trying to work out the moves and wiggles before the muisc for that one finishes!

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

I wasn't 'stripped of oestrogen' following breast disease treatment.  I tried to take Tamoxifen which lessens oestrogen production but it made me SO ill I had to stop it - in fact it almost killed me.  I was prepared to take the risk as it was only a possibility that it would stop the disease returning.  I didn't feel ill prior to surgery nor after, no pain but I was emotionally fragile.

Tamoxifen can increase womb cancer.  A friend of mine had this happen  ……… Another friend died anyway despite surgery followed by Tamoxifen.

Menopause is natural.  I felt ill at certain times during my menstruating years.  Every month.  But it did have a pattern …. ish 

I think some ladies are getting too bogged down by what their bodies are doing naturally  - don't you remember how you felt in the couple of years prior to beginning periods ?? feeling unsettled, irritable, weepy, scared ……. without knowing why and without having access to anyone who could tell me why ……….. but our Lives moved on with or without the botheration of periods: boys  , exams., getting a job, driving test …….. marrying, child-rearing/not, divorce/not ………. I don't believe that the body can be over-loaded with oestrogen or progesterone for very long otherwise we would cease to function completely.

We are forgetting that it isn't only sexual hormones that play a part in our daily survival but we must remember adrenaline and the other hormones which play an important part in keeping us upright!

Many products that can be bought on-line or in UK Chemists are aimed at our life-style from feeding babies to where we are now! and often are on the shelves in order to make money for the Companies - whereas if we kept to a healthy diet, good exercise plan, plenty of fresh air, alcohol as and when ……… we would do just fine! I rarely look on the shelves to see what I might require …….. if I'm ill I go to the GP if not, once I get going each morning, I generally get through each day without too many problems.  It wasn't always so but now 

[Rowan]

"silverlady - you know commercial links are not permitted on this site - the link is to the site which sells the cream ( I have omitted the link from the quote) and as such is promoting that particular cream which the company itself does"

Hurdity the address I gave purposely deleted the www. so it was not a direct link.

 
You are not a moderator and I resent you deleting anything in my post, this for Emma to do not you.

There was nothing wrong in my post.

Also I don't see how you could have you could have omitted anything in my post.

If you objected to anything have I have posted PM Emma and she will decide.

[CLKD]

I totally disagree that we should be taking anything from the wild for use - once a preparation is discovered that can be beneficial it should be synthesised …….. which enables a  regular, safe 'purity' of product.  When my dog was ill I was advised to use green lipped mussels - from the wild, harvested in their 1000s ……..  …….. NO WAY! 

[Rowan]

CLKD from my post

"By the way progesterone cream is made from Mexican Wild Yam (Dioscorea Villosa) though it is still synthesised in the lab"

[CLKD]

I saw - that's what triggered my memory about the green lipped mussels ……… there were other pain relief preparations that were on offer for my dog which had been proven in the Lab.. 

[Rowan]

Its what HRT preparations are made of too, the ones the NHS GP prescribes.

Sorry CLKD not your fault, but I am fuming and I think my days on MM are coming to an end.

[CLKD]

 I read your comment as "cream is made from Mexican Wild Yam (Dioscorea Villosa) though it is still synthesised in the lab" as if it is made mainly from Wild Yam  and only occasionally synthesised ……. the way it is written does not indicate that it was discovered as beneficial from Mexican Wild Yam and is now synthesised …………  - savvy?

Humans have no right to continue harvesting from the wild herbs, plants, animals that could be beneficial - unless they can be synthesised correctly, processes which take years of research and stabilisation.  Whereas in the 'wild' various Tribes know what in the Jungle is safe to use  ……..

[Rowan]

Wild Yam cream is completely different to Natural Progesterone cream

Wild Yam cream is a herbal cream from the natural plant.

Natural progesterone cream is made from Progesterone USP, the raw material is from Mexican Yam which is synthesized in the lab distributed as micronized powder  in bulk to the Pharmaceutical Companies to be made into the HRT preparations. The same with Soy.

This how Compound Pharmacies in America make up their individual hormone preparations, and Progesterone cream is made from.

https://www.spectrumchemical.com/OA_HTML/chemical-products_Progesterone-Micronized-Powder-USP_P1834.jsp

I hope I have made myself clear on this.

[BrightLight]

CLKD - I think it's wise to remember the whole body has a part to play in this period of our lives, adrenals etc and that given a good base of health, food, excercise and stress management , balance and symptoms might just happen without too much distress.  Sadly, I do think our bodies can remain in a hormonal imbalance, well at least they revert to it, sort of like a bad habit

Silverlady - I am very sorry that I have indirectly caused upset for you, I appreciate you sharing.  You are explaining the differences well.

Hurdity - I really do see how this site is trying to make sure women are not misinformed, misguided etc but it should be clear from my posts that I am approaching things with eyes wide open and am able to form my own judgement on whether this company selling products responds to me in a way that gives me confidence in their product.  To me, it is no different than asking questions of our GP's and other sources on the efficacy of medication they prescribe.  It isn't a given that everyone finds 'comfort' in regulated products or statistics, sometimes the attitude of the healthcare provider is important too - albeit 'unregulated', which of course carries risks.  Isn't it swings and roundabouts with all these things?

I do not think that biodentical hormones are 'natural' - I have worked in the natural health industry and this whole issue of natural is a bit frustrating - both from the point of view of claims, perceptions and understanding.  No hormone replacement system that we are discussing is natural.  I view it with the same risks as HRT on one level but......if I need a bridge in the short term I can choose between a prescription from my GP (if he will provide it) or from a company selling it, or someone prescribing it -either way I want to be able to tailor any treatment I choose. 

All that being said, I have also been a moderator and realise that community management is intrinsic to keeping the tone and approach of the forum.  I really did think there would be a wider variety of discussion beyond management of HRT etc and it seems that really there isn't and perhaps the underlying premise of the site doesn't suit me.

There really are a lot of solutions out there, to all sorts of issues that relate to menopause, be it the hormone replacement aspect, stress management, herbal remedies to help ease minor symptoms, mindfullness coaching and many of them are regulated, used by some doctors and offer a great range for a great number of women.  There are some great websites out there that don't sell anything and still discuss all these choices.

It's a complicated subject and perhaps the value of this forum really is in helping women manage their HRT - that is certainly needed and a great resource.  I think unless I am taking HRT, I might bow out for now. 

Thanks everyone for the input and discussion.

[CLKD]

Hormone Replacement Therapy is not a 'natural' way to deal with menopause which is a 'natural' progression of ageing.  HRT helps ease some symptoms that some ladies suffer ……. and I mean 'suffer' in the true sense of the word.  I have been lucky.  The worst for me was vaginal atrophy and certainly without treatment I wouldn't have got rid of symptoms.

Some things that are 'natural' are dangerous …….. many of the garden plants we choose are natural and dangerous ……… the hormonal imbalance doesn't always last, it is, like periods, something we have to push on through.  Other ladies benefit from HRT for the rest of their lives as long as GPs agree to prescribing it.

From reading on here it seems that many ladies suddenly hit the wall of menopausal symptoms without warning  …. which is a shock and can take the rug from under their feet.

[honeybun]

I really despair. Silver Lady brings an alternative view to many things, progesterone cream, health care, skin care.
I really think that others members should respect that and stop picking at what she says.
It happens time after time.

Not everyone has a deep interest in the ins and outs of scientific studies but we read with interest.

Could the other members who bring interesting information to the forum be afforded the same respect.

Every time someone mentions progesterone cream and Silver Lady responds she gets shot down.

I think this is unacceptable and as Brightlight says....her eyes are wide open and she can form her own judgement...

Please let this be a forum where all views are treated with respect.


We no longer have forum moderators from our members SL....I should know....I was one.


Honeyb
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[Rowan]

Please don't be sorry Bright Light this has been happening to me for many years. It was highlighted by a poster a few days ago that many are driven away by some members attitude.





As I said I am seriously considering leaving MM now because this is only one of many put downs I have had over the years though this time not so subtle.

I really do hope you find the peace and answers you are looking for.

One thing I will add there are some nAtural health sites out there with very gentle  people who have do have open minds, my mistake was trying to combine natural medicine idea's with mainstream on MM.

[honeybun]

I think that would be a real shame SL.

You have the same right to voice your opinions as the rest of us.

If Dr Currie thought there was no place for alternative therapies she would not have included a section on it......that to me says it all.


Keep posting please.


Honeyb
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