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[babyjane]

Hi, I see that some members use sage pills/capsules successfully for flushes and sweats and mood swings.  We watched Trust Me I'm A Doctor this week and sage capsules were featured as being good for mental alertness so I am interested in trying this.

when I looked them up the info kept saying that sage contains a substance called thujone which is harmful to the liver and should only be taken for a maximum of 4 months. If that is the case I would rather not start them, find they work and then have to give them up.

Can any members who use sage tablets successfully tell me more about this and is the information correct or not?

Thanks for reading  BJ x

[honeybun]

My friend uses drops BJ. The make is Vogel. Not sure if the same applies.

I did try the drops but the taste was awful.


Honeyb
x

[babyjane]

Did it help your friend honeybun?

[honeybun]

Yes most definitely. She was on HRT for a while and then came off. Flushes returned but she decided to try sage and has managed very well.


Honeyb
x

[libby1]

Hi BJ

I take sage daily and haven't seen any info that it is harmful. Where did you read that it was?

Libby
x

[babyjane]

webmd website

Sage is LIKELY SAFE in amounts typically used in foods. It is POSSIBLY SAFE when taken by mouth or applied to the skin in medicinal amounts short-term (up to 4 months).

But don't use sage in high doses or long-term. Some species of sage contain a chemical called thujone that can be poisonous if you get enough. This chemical can cause seizures and damage to the liver and nervous systems. The amount of thujone varies with the species of plant, the time of harvest, growing conditions, and other factors.

Which make do you use Libby1?

[babyjane]

Hi stellajane, my flushes are milder than they were and less frequent but still there at times but I have developed the stomach fluttering anxiety symptoms which are really uncomfortable, and brain fog. I was thinking of seeing if sage could help with that.

[Hurdity]

Hi babyjane

Yes I saw that programme too! It was an interesting result but of course was very limited in its scope - ie very small study and sage not taken long enough to look at long term effects.

However I am sure it is not called sage for nothing!

The problem of course with any supplement that is concentrated and then taken reguarly is that it is then ingested in concentrations far higher than you would take naturally and so needs to be subject to the same safety trials as any other drug, even though it is a natural substance. The body has to deal with the excess.

I looked at some studies of this and they were inconclusive regarding its efficacy. A review looked at studies and said that although results showed promising beneficial effects, they needed further proper study and trials with robust methodology. No details of the studies  were given in the abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24836739

I did look at a study from another article but it wasn't that helpful as it looked at the effect of sage oil on mood and cognitive performance but only for a number of hours after treatment.
http://www.aromamd.net/edu_memory_mood.pdf

Clearly as with many of these supplements there needs to be a proper trial carried out to determine efficacy, dosage, different preparations, safety etc

If it were me, until further studies have been carried out,  I would go out and buy the herb from the supermarket (very cheap) and use it regularly in cooking in quantities that enhance taste but not so much as to be unpleasant! That way there would be no danger of overdose or toxicity from prolonged use.  This cannot do any harm but would allow any beneficial effects from phyisologically appropriate doses. 

Hurdity x

[babyjane]

Oh thank you Hurdity, you are very wise and seem to have looked into this.

I am a bit of a baby about things and am always afraid of making things worse with things that claim to make things better.  I am hypersensitive to medicines, chemicals, in fact most things and I always seem to have side effects that aren't reported on the information sheet so I am naturally wary but would still like to find things that could help.

thank you so much for your input  BJ

[Hurdity]

Hi again

Acrtually I'm not so sage  Having thought about what I wrote I realise the studies were looking into mood and cognitive performance and not anything to do with flushes/menopause! I haven't' found any studies about this yet but will let you know if I do!

However the info on safety still stands....

Have you tried any of the calming exercises - either the 3:2:1 exercise on here our other techniques to help with the stomach/anxiety symptoms?

Hurdity x

[honeybun]

My friend has used sage for about three years...everyday....She is just fine and is mostly flush free.

I know that the studies and data might not be perfect but what we have to remember is that our ancestors used herbs for medicinal purposes on a daily basis. A lot of our modern medicines are based on plant and herbal extracts.
We can over think these things.

You can give it a try and see. I doubt very much if it would do you any harm at all. After all the side effects....if we read them all....for the most mundane things can be pretty awful. Paracetamol for example.....side effects include headaches.

My sister who has a very serious health condition questioned her consultant with regard to side effects. The answer was ignore them or stop taking your pills.....which would result in death.

Sometimes we just have to try.....can't think of any death certificate that noted the cause of death as sage drops.


Honeyb
x

[babyjane]

thank you both, I may well give them a try 

[Hurdity]

honeybun - That's pretty much what I was saying in my posts - used naturally as it was in the past ie for culinary uses and eg in tea it can't do any harm, but once it is concentrated and sold as oil or tablets - like may products are nowadays ( where once they were not) then it becomes a drug like product and subject to the same possible dangers - which may not have been properly looked into with unregulated products that are sold as supplements rather than drugs.

It is not over thinking to look into these possible aspects and the information I read from the US National Centre for Complementary and Alternative Medicine warned of caution.

•   Sage is generally regarded as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and is approved for food use as a spice or seasoning. However, some species of sage contain thujone, which can affect the nervous system. Extended use or taking large amounts of sage leaf or oil may result in restlessness, vomiting, vertigo, rapid heart rate, tremors, seizures, and kidney damage. It also may lead to wheezing. Ingesting 12 drops or more of the essential oil is considered a toxic dose.
•   Drug interactions with sage have not been thoroughly studied.
•   Sage can stimulate allergic or hypersensitivity reactions. Skin contact may result in inflammation. Ingesting sage powder or dust may cause breathing difficulties.

I agree that sometimes listing side effects can make us unreasonably afraid to try anything but babyjane asked for information so I found some!  . We all have our own concerns and worries.....

Hurdity x

[honeybun]

Oh the taste though 

It was Sunday dinner stuffing + 10000000.

I just could not tolerate it at all.


Honeyb
x

[rosebud57]

Healthspan sell capsal that are the equivalent of 2000mg of whole leaf (2g). I don't think that amount would do you any harm.  Being capsals no taste either.