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[Ljp]

Hi, I have just turned 50, and I have been peri menopausal for approx 5 years, periods are very few and light, not had anything now since August.

I have been managing my horrible symptoms quite well by using serenity cream, and St johns wort etc.

More recently I am noticing other symptoms arsing which I'm struggling to ease, the night sweats are real bad, day flushes aren't really too much of a problem, as not as often. Also my hair is really changing in texture, I know I would have a large proportion of grey if I didn't colour it and that grey hair can be course.

I am finding the mood swings and general feelings of doom and gloom more difficult, I have days when its difficult to even want to talk, I feel so sorry for my husband, as I am horrible at times and this just makes me feel less like opening my mouth for fear the fire breathing dragon will raise its ugly head.

I am terrified of HRT as I am terrified of cancer. I am considering stopping the serenity cream as not feeling it's doing much for me now, although it has helped for a few years. I know they do a cream called 20-1 which has the addition of some oestrogen but again I am very scared of using it, even the serenity cream plays with my mind, making me question is it right to play with Hormones?

Do any of you use supplements? If so what have you found to be Effective?

I worry that by using hormones, not only would I potentially increase my chances of cancer, but also that I am  just prolonging the menopause and would still have to go through it when I came off the hrt anyway,but I could really do with some sort of help through this as it's not much of a life at times

[babyjane]

hello lisajp, you sound very unhappy but can I say how I find sharing feelings on this forum really helps as the ladies are so lovely, reassuring and helpful.  It makes you not feel alone.

I chose not to take HRT and that was right for me. Other ladies choose to take it and there are others who really know about it so I am sure they will discuss your fears with you. If you can manage without it and want to manage without it you can.  From what I have read it isn't always a cure all and sometimes causes problems of its own but I don't want to cause ill feeling because the 'HRT or not' debate I have seen can get heated at times.

Anyway the way I have managed it for the last 5/6 years is to address each symptom individually.  For my hot flushes and sweats I use a fan and a Magicool spray, also a gel pack that is kept in the freezer I put that on my neck.  I have successfully used St John's Wort to stabilise my mood for some years and it works for me. I use glucosamine to support my joints and a multivitamin every other day.  I also listen to my body and if I can't cope with something I don't do it to try and avoid stress.

I guess I am fortunate in that I no longer work because if I had to go to work every day and concentrate and focus like a lot of the ladies here still do then I may well have tried HRT before now.

I am not afraid of it and I sincerely think you do not need to be terrified of it either but I think you need a lot more information and reassurance about it and I will leave that up to the ladies who know about it.

All the best, Jane 

[Dancinggirl]

Hi and welcome to MM Lisjp.
The menopause is tough for many women and you are not alone.
Have you or your family had some experience of cancer which gives you this terrible fear?
Do read up all the info under the headings to the left of this screen - there is even a section on alternative techniques.
I personally have not had any luck with all the various herbal remedies etc - I've spent a fortune over the years. I do take Menopace to support my general health as it is known that our immune systems are more compromised once we are menopausal. I also take Omega 3 to help with joint aches etc.
The debate about HRT and whether to use it will go on and on.  I am personally not happy to use HRT but see it as a necessary compromise.

I had a premature menopause so had to use HRT for many years. I took myself off HRT at 49 as I felt I shouldn't need it any more and really struggled with meno symptoms for 3 years hoping things would subside and get better.  At 53 I had so much stress in my life I needed to be on top of my game and went back on HRT. I am now 58 & I have been without HRT for nearly a year - although I cope with the flushes etc during the day, the nights are really tough and I now have vaginal atrophy and bladder problems all associated with oestrogen deficiency. I am considering going back on HRT.
Sadly there have been so many negative stories about the risks involved with HRT but most of these have been over blown - the press do love these things.  HRT doesn't suit all women but if you find the right preparation that works for you it can transform your life. 

Like you, I thought using HRT was just delaying the inevitable but we tend to have a mantra on MM - "quality of life is very important".  If the meno symptoms are seriously impeding your ability to get on with life then if HRT gives you some quality of life that is great.  You also mustn't forget the other benefits of HRT - it protects you heart and bones and helps to prevent vaginal atrophy and bladder problems!!!
The research on HRT actually shows that women who have a hysterectomy and don't use oestrogen are at a higher risk of getting breast cancer.  It is the combined HRT (Oestrogen with progesterone) that can bring a very small increased risk of breast cancer if you use HRT beyond the age of 60 - (you need progesterone if you have a uterus to keep the lining from thickening). However newer HRT regimes which include natural hormones are considered safer.  I have to say, if you have been using progesterone cream then in theory you have been using a form of Hormone replacement therapy.
There are many ladies on this site who use many alternative methods to help them cope so hopefully they will be along with advice soon.
Keep posting   DG x

[Ljp]

Thank you for your replies, why is it so tough being female?
My mum died of non Hodgkin's lymphoma on Christmas eve 7 years ago, and although not related in anyway to hormones ( as far as I'm aware) it was just very very traumatic.
I also teach dancing and one lady at my class had breast cancer caused by oestrogen in HRT, and another is currently being treated for breast cancer with secondaries, found by a routine mammogram.
As you say I am in effect already using a form of HRT in serenity cream, and not really happy about that, or convinced it is helping anymore.
My worse symptoms are the night sweats, and brain fog/ mood swings,many General feeling of doom and gloom, but also bladder issues, urge incontinence, and dryness of hair, skin, and nails.
Just feel detached from myself, like I'm lost inside myself! But what to do is the question?

[Hurdity]

Hi Lisajp

Sorry to hear you are suffering and your story is similar to many and I can understand your fears. My father died of cancer too.

Like you I used what I thought were alternative remedies when I was peri-menopausal ( Black Cohosh, phyotoestrogen rich diet etc) and thought it was helping but in reality it was just that my body was not far enough into peri-menopause and my oestrogen levels had not dropped far enough to make my symptoms severe.

When my periods were getting quite scarce (I was 53 1/2 when I had last natural period) just before I was 54 I just couldn't cope with the sweats and flushes(I was working almost full-time) and decided to take HRT. Like you I was worried about it as I hadn't read anything about it and had just heard the bad press.

When I googled some info I came up with this website (it must have been in its early days as it was 2007) which gave lots of information about the different types so I decided to start right from the beginning with a "nil-by-mouth" approach to hormone replacement and to use hormones that are biologically identical to those in our own body   These are all available on NHS as Dancinggirl has already told you. I have been doing this since then and I am now 61.

Re the risks and benefits of HRT - there is a lot of information on this site and I would urge you to read as much as you can about it. If you look at the menu on the left - 3rd green tab down (Hormone Replacement Therapy) has lots of sub-tabs about risks and benefits. In particular you will see that aged under 60 the benefits exceed the risks. http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/balance.php

There is also info about breast cancer risk: http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/risks.php Sorry to hear about your friend but it really is not possible to say that her breast cancer was caused by HRT. However many existing breast cancers are stimulated by oestrogen so added oestrogen can cause them to grow (this is how I understand it anyway).

It is also thought that bio-identical HRT is less associated with risks overall than tablet HRT with synthetic progestogens and equine oestrogens.

You can minimise your overall cancer risk by so many other lifestyle factors - by not smoking, limiting alcohol intake to within recommended limits, taking more exercise, reducing weight to healthy limits and eating healthy diet with plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables and limiting processed foods.http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/diet.php

There was an article last week in the Daily Mail online in which Dr Currie founder of this site wrote in support of HRT. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2800760/should-women-hrt-menopause-experts-say-s-best-way-ease-symptoms-avoid-long-term-health-problems.html

HRT will definitely improve bladder issues as well as many of the other symptoms. It is important to realise it is not a panacea but many women decide that despite some side effects or drawbacks they (I should say we because I am one!) feel better overall than without it.

As for putting off menopause - you don't really put it off as such. If/when you decide to come off - you may get hot flushes returning - but on the other hand you may not - but you won't get mood swings because your hormones will be stable so you ride through the rest of the peri-menopause.

I can say absolutely that my quality of life as I enter my 60's is positive! I am still working part-time, going away much more than I used to ( children more or less left now) and renewing old pleasures like going to festivals and live bands.

I don't see it as playing with hormones - just replacing oestrogen which is deficient - and can lead to other long term health problems. Of course it is a personal decision but needs to be made with all the most up-to-date information available - and this is where this site and the forum is great.

I hope I have helped a little with this 

Hurdity x

[Dancinggirl]

Oh Lisajp
I was just about to send you another post but Hurdity (very wise lady with a science background) has said everything and more that I wanted to say.  Thank you Hurdity.
I used to be a professional dancer and a few years ago I started up an adult beginners ballet class.  I had gone back on HRT so my energy had returned - it was such fun. I've moved house now so no longer do this class - might try doing it again if I go back on HRT.
Keep posting.  Dg x

[Ljp]

Thank you hurdity and dancing girl, I so appreciate your help😊

IT is so difficult as I feel very overwhelmed by the cancer issues, like I would get cancer from taking HRT and wish I had persevered without it.

I have read the statistics and feel the benefits may well out do the risks at my age now, but I am concerned as to when I would stop it should I start it, and what effects that might have later on.
Another concern is another dance lady I know had blood clots after starting hrt and was poorly for quite sometime.

It feels that when i speak to other women, they look at you with the same look people get when they say they smoke or drink, if you mention HRT, like you are doing something bad to yourself.

There has been a lot of scare mongering and bad press re HRT I feel, to the point that lots of women, myself included, feel really terrified to try it, even if it could alter our lives.

I wasn't aware you could get 'nil by mouth' bio identical hormones on the NHS. I Must say that the idea of equine urine based hormones does repulse me somewhat.

Question, does HRT help with hair, skin and nails too?

Dancing girl, I am very fit, I teach 5- hours of line dance classes every Monday, fitsteps classes on Tuesday morning and Thursday evening, and Zumba on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings! No wonder my joints ache! 😊

[CLKD]

It can be a minefield but surely quality of Life is better than being worried about perhaps getting cancer from HRT?  After all, 1 might fall in front of a bus 2-morrow  ……….. 1 symptom is OK but these tend to creep up until some ladies realise they have too many to deal with.

If 'natural' remedies worked they would be available on the NHS.  However, some ladies do find that St John's Wort helps.  Evening primrose, but eventually if our own hormones take over or drop off, symptoms become uncomfortable to deal with.

Vaginal atrophy can be sorted with topical HRT - my VA presented as repeated urine 'infections' which weren't followed by razor blades 'up there'  - now I have treatment to use twice a week my vagina is comfortable again.

I had cancer.  4 years prior to diagnosis I had 3 months HRT.  Connected: maybe …… worried: nope. Quality is important.  Read up, make a list of symptoms, perhaps keep a mood/food diary ……. and let us know how you get on!

[Dancinggirl]

Wow Lisajp - I'm so impressed - and you do all this with your meno symptoms raging.
Well we certainly don't need to advice you to take more exercise. I'm afraid I just do brisk walks with my dog these days.  My joints are suffering a bit after abusing them through my dancing days.
Blood clots are rare especially at your age.
The nil-by-mouth HRT Hurdity is talking about would be one of the patches (see under HRT Preparations) or she and many others are now using Oestrogen patches or gel with Utrogestan as the progesterone part and this is bio identical ( so is the same as our own hormones) and is described by Dr. Currie as 'Breast Friendly'. Utrogestan is supposed to used orally but many use it vaginally as it gives fewer side effects.
HAve you read the article on the Daily Mail website - Hurdity gave you the link i think?
Many GPs are not up to speed on meno treatment so many of us have to go to our GPs with info printed off from this site to show them what we want.  Dg x

[CLKD]

… all that you wonder why ………… your body is trying to keep up at a time many of us are slowing down 

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi
Sorry to hear you are struggling. So many women just suffer through their 40s and 50s, never realising that something properly biological is going on and can be sorted out.

I am 44. All last year I noticed my periods, though still regular were much ligher and my PS was lasting much longer. Last Autumn I started suffering from generalised anxiety, for no reason. I presented at my GPs several times over the Winter, saying how dreadfully low and horribly anxious I was feeling. Despite my GP being in her 50s herself, the potential of being peri menopausal was never once mentioned.

She insisted I just needed anti depressants and started me on Sertraline, which was just pure poison and genuinely made me feel I was losing my mind. I suddenly became scared of the dark, like a little child and I totally lost any feelings of love or affection towards my husband and children. Plus, I had horrendous panic attacks on it (I have always been a very cool, calm and collected person - doing a professionally demanding job) which were just terrible.

I begged to be taken off it, and my GP switched me to amitriptyline because of it's known sedative effects. It worked. My anxiety disappeared but I then spent the next 7 months like a woozy zombie. I slept a lot and gained 11lbs in weight. But, all the while my periods were still getting lighter. And, I found this site and I started to wonder if it was just my hormones causing my issues - as very early menopause runs in the family.

But my GP dismissed my concerns, saying I was far too young. In desperation I switched to another GP, a much older man who AMAZINGLY took my worries very seriously, asked all the right questions and referred me to a specialist clinic. At the clinic the gynaecologist immediately diagnosed me as peri menopausal thanks to my symptoms and family history.

Since then I have had to wait 3 months for my follow up appointment at the clinic, and in that time my periods are even lighter. But, I stopped taking the amitriptyline 6 weeks ago and haven't missed it. No anxiety. Have lost the 11lbs I gained. Mood and sleep is back to normal. I feel fine again.

Not sure what to say to my gynaecologist at my next appointment, to be honest.

[Ljp]

Thanks for all the replies and advice, it does seem like one heck of a long journey the whole perimenopase to post menopause, and the symptoms that go with it.
I feel in this day and age that there should be lots more help, advice and support offered to us, it still feel a bit hush hush,something women should hide and put up with.
Trying to make an informed decision is almost impossible, at a time in your life when even thinking straight on a daily basis is a struggle.
All the women I see at my classes, and try to talk to, seem to poo poo HRT saying that menopause is a natural process and best just weathered. Yet I know from reading on this site that there are lots of advocates of HRT, why is it that everyone I meet looks at my like I'm an addict if I mention it?
It doesn't make the decision easy, and I feel like I'm a failure if I sucumb to HRT, so so difficult.

[peegeetip]

Lisa

I know how you feel. But MM will help you so much 

You are not a failure to take or even succumb to HRT 
Far from it, your taking control of your life and making your own choice.
We think of nothing taking other vitamins, minerals and supplements to try and keep ourselves healthy.
Vitamin D is not even a vitamin (its closer to being a hormone) but we still pop them to keep our bones healthy.
Why can't people just see it in the same way but understand its just adding to or replacing what we are missing.
HRT is more controlled and tested than a lot of the other things we would gladly take for our health

"All the women I see at my classes, and try to talk to, seem to poo poo HRT"
What were their words of wisdom and how old were they all? 
I'm sure they were rolling out the similar misinformation I got from my doc even.

The decision is easy and simple.
Ask yourself "Is my quality of health and life getting worse?"
If the answer is yes then you need to take control and fix the problem.
Go to your doctor and ask for example femoston 1/10 or elleste duet 1mg to start you off with.

If you do choose to use HRT, then no one needs to know, its your business only.
If you want to share, then no doubt you'll get a lot more poo poo'ing going on.

Remember your not a failure.

Hope that helps
 

[Ljp]

Once again thank you all for your advice and support x
I am now using estriol cream every night for my bladder and soreness, and I feel it has helped, although this second week there have been days when my urgency problem has been an issue. Went back to GP today and she suggested using it nightly for another week, then drop it down to twice weekly, has anyone else done this? I'm concerned re the risk of the oestrogen going too much into my blood stream?
My GP has also put the prescription on repeat for whenever I need it. How often should I go yo see her for a review if I find the estriol does its job and looks like a long term relief for my problem?
Thanks ladies xx

[ancient runner]

Hello Lisa
I think the instructions will tell you to use the estriol cream daily for a fortnight and then drop to twice weekly. By doing that you plump up the vaginal tissue and the result is that you don't get oestrogen travelling round the rest of your body (and do you realise that the cream you're using has minuscule amounts of hormone in it? I think I remember somebody posting that Vagifem which is comparatively much stronger has the equivalent over the year of two HRT pills in it)
So keep on using it - and please don't panic. For some reason lots of women have themselves in a real lather about HRT and think it's the devil, or giving in to something. It's not, and it's not. You can be "safe" and in pain - or use an exceptionally low-risk drug (your cream really is exceptionally low risk) and have quality of life. And as someone said upthread, you could go under a bus tomorrow.
Please, please don't worry about it. And maybe don't listen to those who do.