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[babyjane]

Hi, kiltgirl your post is so sad but I can relate to every word of it as I also imagine the worst when faced with any symptoms.

I recently had a tummy upset and have lost weight, which was the complete opposite of how my bowels usually work and all I could think was the advice at our doctors - 'report any sudden change in bowel habits or weight loss' then since I read about Lynda Bellingham I have been planning my funeral!

Now common sense tells me that it is my IBS flaring due to weeks of stressful activity leading up to and including my daughter's wedding last month, plus my thyroid levels are slightly unstable just now. But with menopause anxiety common sense doesn't come into it does it.  Have a meno hug, I think you need one just now (hug).

[kiltgirl]

Think we all need a hug on here...fighting the panic is so hard but the alternative doesn't seem any better!
 

[babyjane]

....and sparkle is exactly the same as me too kiltgirl, we were separated at birth 

[goldgalaxy]

Hi cheekygal

I have had exactly the same problems/symptoms as you have over the last few years.  I thought I was going mad.  I have been on AD's and beta blockers in the past but wanted to help myself and not rely on medication. My gp referred me for counselling, but in the meantime I scoured my library for books to read on anxiety.  Three books and counselling have helped me immensely.  As well as the horrible feelings in my body the same as yours I was also afraid to go in lifts, locking toilet doors and generally felt anxious about life in general.  The three books I read were:
Self Help For Your Nerves by Dr Claire Weekes.  This book was written in 1962 so is very dated, but it explains exactly what happens to your body, your brain and your nerves when you suffer from anxiety.
Feel The Fear and Do it Anyway by Susan Jeffers - helps with self-confidence and motivation.
Control Stress, Book & CD - Paul McKenna - The CD was a life-saver, took some getting used to and may not be for everyone, but really helps with relaxation and calming the mind.
My counselling sessions and reading leaflets about avoidance helped me with my claustrophobia, and not long afterwards on a visit to NY I went up the empire state building and in many other lifts, no choice really in NY.
To conclude, I don't think the menopause causes anxiety, I think it's a build up over many years that leads to the point of near nervous breakdown.  But help is available.  You just have to find it.  I feel loads better now, and if I ever have strange sensations I know what they are now, and the panic and anxiety doesn't set in, which only escalates the problem if you let it.  Calmness is the key. 

[Rowan]

Great post goldgalaxy I endorse everything you have written.

The Charles Linden Method helped me the most  http://charles-linden.com/ along with Claire Weekes.

[Suzyq]

Exactly what helped me - except for Paul McKenna! I saw a hypnotist and he gave me a download to listen to when I felt anxious.... Very important to make yourself do things that scare you - cbt was great for giving me the confidence... It's great when anxiety and panic no longer control our lives - worth all the hard work

[Chi chi]

Hi CheekyGal

I paid privately for a lot of blood tests and my testosterone was v. low, estradiol low (less than a man has), progesterone low, dhea low, FSH and LH high, sorry I can't remember numbers!  All pointing to post menopause.  I have probably been like this for years and on and off antid's.  Also my B12, Folate  and Ferritin were low too - another thing to affect mood etc.  Also the restless leg thing can be affected by lack of B12.  www.b12d.org for more info.  Some amazing stories on the old site for pernicious anaemia - the My Story section worth a read - www.pernicious-anaemia-society.org.  Terrible how a simple deficiency could be responsible for so much.  So I also inject B12 3 times a week - this has helped with fatigue and mood to a point. 

It was a relief to see there was actually something proving why I felt so rubbish rather than just guess work and more tablets and psychiatrists etc.

The extra pump has worked so far - keeping fingers crossed!  I noted in my diary it took 7 days to get rid of that horrid 'gut feeling' which leads to me overthinking and then worrying and then how useless I am blah blah blah etc. etc. etc..  Hope it stays away!!

I agree there are some people who are more sensitive (me being one) but I used to be able to control it and get on with things or at least distract myself.  Then, not sure if it's age, or a build up of stress, one day I just couldn't.  Periods were normal so no reason for anyone to think is was meno related I suppose - but maybe someone could have suggested peri? Seems hormonal to me - especially when I see my blood test results.  I really hope it is anyway as at least we can put back some of the hormones.  If I keep crossing my fingers so much they will get stuck like that!  Then that will be another problem  .

I hope you are feeling better and any of the above information helps.  I do feel as though I am pushing the 2 sites mentioned but they have helped me enormously and have (I am going to whisper this so as not to jinx it!) been off AD's for 16 months.  Along with this amazing site and the fabulous, honest, intelligent, supportive, open and helpful ladies on here - I hope I am 'getting there' ('there' being content will do for now thanks!).

Take care

CW
 




CW - what do you mean when you say most of your hormones are low?  Hope the extra pump helps you 

If you don't mind me asking how low was your testosterone? Mine was 0.4 pmol

[curlywurly]

Hi Estelle

No problem!  Just had a root around and found them.  My testosterone was 0.1 nmol/L (0.29-1.7).  Taking a DHEA supplement at the moment - hoping to get on Testogel or the like in the future if my consultant is willing?

Yours is low too (not sure of the conversion of pmol/nmol etc.  They are both on their bum anyway aren't they?  When I read about low Testosterone in women there is loads of stuff about depression, low mood, anxiety, self confidence issues etc. etc.  So it makes sense to at least have something to help.  I hope I am right. 

There does seem to be an awful lot of us on here with these feelings.  They just come out of the blue - no rhyme or reason for me.  Can be having a great day then thump!  Horrible feelings.  Or wake up like that after a very good sleep.  Don't know about you but it didn't used to be like that when I was younger.  Yes I was always a bit of a nervous Nellie but NOTHING like this.  It was manageable and certainly didn't take over my life in any way like it does now.  I have tried everything over the years - it just makes sense to me that it must be hormones in some way.  Getting the right balance would be good though!

My Oestradiol was <18 pmol/L (Males 28-156), Progesterone 0.8 nmol/L (Males 0.7-4.3) and DHEAS 2.8 umol/L (0.7-12.5). 

The reason I have given the males reference range is if that's what they need we obviously should have a bit more or at least within the same area?  Also I am being lazy and can't be bothered typing all the different numbers!

Sorry if I have waffled on too much.

Take care.

CW
 


[/quote]
If you don't mind me asking how low was your testosterone? Mine was 0.4 pmol
[/quote]

[Chi chi]

Lol you haven't waffled at all, it's nice to chat with people who are going through the exact same things 
You sound just like me, everything you describe I can really relate to. My oestradiol was 125 pmol which I believe is on the lower side of normal (whatever that is)? I did a private saliva test that showed my DHEA was 0.03!! Neither My GP or Prof Studd was concerned with this 
I've been on Testim along with Oestrogel since June, my levels are now
Test 8.3
Estradiol 1001
A few months in and I felt wonderful, like a different woman and everyone noticed a change in me. Then it was time for Utrogestan and I haven't felt good since  that was 1 sep. I'm only 40 (just ) but have every menopause symptom except the flushes, one of my hips are also oestioporatic 
Have things improved whilst being on the DHEA? We're you advised by your GP to take it?
Estelle 

[curlywurly]

It seems on this particular thread (and other threads too) started by Cheekygal we are all in the same boat doesn't it?  A LOT of similarities.  I feel like I being particularly dense and not seeing something which is staring me in the face given all of our similar symptoms/experiences.  Grrr!  I bet one day someone will go 'oh yes it's just..........!'  Well I can hope! 

Thank goodness for this website!  It really does help to 'chat'.

Well your results are so obviously low - even to me and I am nowhere near medically experienced.  Why can't Doc's see it?!  It's a bit like expecting a car to run well on low windscreen wash - ok it may not seem that important but it will be when you can't see out of the window won't it?  Why won't they let us be at optimal levels and then see how we get on? 

I am too on Oestrogel (recently upped to 2 pumps at night) and Utrogestan (about to end 2nd month, doing 25 days out of 28). 

Wow you are only 40 (I thought I was fairly early at 46), and your poor hip too. 

It sounds as though things were fab for you at first?  Until the Utrogestan?  How much Oestrogel were/are you using and how much Testim?  Sorry for being nosey.  Such a shame for you to have to go from feeling so fab to not because of the Progesterone.  It's the best of the bunch from what I read too.  Do you know what could be an alternative for you?  That is sooooo annoying to go from so high to low.  There must be something?  I really hope so.

I had to start my HRT journey on the more natural stuff as I wasn't prepared to start messing about with trial and error after my past history of depression, anxiety etc. which I now think was peri. 

If only my GP was so open to even think about thinking about talking about thinking about DHEA!!!  Gawd, it's a no go for anything at my practice!  I was advised to try it by the person overseeing my therapeutic trial for Secondary Addison's.  It is available on th'internet and has some articles around and about if you need more info.     I don't know if it's helped as it's early days.  I started HRT, steroids (for SA) and DHEA all at the same time.  I do have more energy and am sleeping better.  Just want rid of anxiety please!! 

Saw something the other day which peeps may find interesting?  www.patient.co.uk, Symptom Checker - it brought up my B12 deficiency and SA - quite a useful tool if you don't read too much into ALL of the results but definitely worth a look and it gives explanations too.  Also could be helpful to take the results to your GP.

My GP couldn't (wouldn't?) help with anything re: menopause so I gave up and went to see a consultant listed on here - he is lovely. 

I definitely waffled this time, sorry!!!

CW
 

Lol you haven't waffled at all, it's nice to chat with people who are going through the exact same things 
You sound just like me, everything you describe I can really relate to. My oestradiol was 125 pmol which I believe is on the lower side of normal (whatever that is)? I did a private saliva test that showed my DHEA was 0.03!! Neither My GP or Prof Studd was concerned with this 
I've been on Testim along with Oestrogel since June, my levels are now
Test 8.3
Estradiol 1001
A few months in and I felt wonderful, like a different woman and everyone noticed a change in me. Then it was time for Utrogestan and I haven't felt good since  that was 1 sep. I'm only 40 (just ) but have every menopause symptom except the flushes, one of my hips are also oestioporatic 
Have things improved whilst being on the DHEA? We're you advised by your GP to take it?
Estelle 

[Chi chi]

Definitely no need to be sorry!  my Dr's are the same! Useless most of the time  said I was too young to have hormone problems so didn't bother to test  I've been given god only knows how many different AD's over the last 2/3 years when maybe all I needed was hormones? And not to be told its all in my head!
When I first went to see Prof Studd he prescribed 3 pumps of the Oestrogel, a tube of testim to last a week and Utrogestan for 7 days at the start of each month. This was back in June but he wanted me to wait till sep to start the Utrogestan. After a couple of weeks we upped the Oestrogel to 4 pumps and by the August I was fantastic! Much much more confidence, happier, more optimistic and my libido hit the roof! Hubby didn't know what had hit him  . Then the Utrogestan  I felt like I'd gone back to square one and haven't improved since. Had my follow up appt with Prof Studd at the beginning of sep, told him how I was feeling and the effect the Utrogestan had on me, he suggested to maybe think about a hysterectomy as I've already had the Mirena previously and hated it, seems I don't have much choice left? Strangely he wants me to now take the Utrogestan for 10 days per month!?  he also reduced my testim to a tube over 2 weeks.
I've since emailed him about my concerns over taking Utrogestan and he said to skip Octobers dose. I just don't understand how I went from feeling so good to feeling so crap and back to square 1  its the anxiety, makes you feel like your going mad, really scary and nobody really understands how it feels unless they've experienced it. My hubby is brilliant and so supportive but I'm scared to tell him exactly how I feel sometimes as I think he'll think I'm insane.
I've gone from thinking it was the Utrogestan that set me back to my testosterone being too high, then my oestrogen being too high ( I've reduced myself back to 3 pumps without telling Studd ) now I just feel like none of its working and what's the point of being on any of it?? I'm also on 2 AD's that obviously ain't doing much but scared to come off them in case things get worse!
I was never like this before, never been the life and soul of the party but this is something else, had mild post natal depression after my first daughter 20 years ago but even that was a walk in the park compared to how I feel now!

We really deserve medals for having to go through all this 

Estelle 

[curlywurly]

Wow we have been through such a similar experience re:  AD's.   

I am hoping too it's a hormonal thing.  You are right - don't you just get sick of being told it's all in our heads?!  Grrr!  My GPs (never seem to see the same one) love to latch onto my 'mental health issues'.

I am not saying I would never go on an AD again - always need to feel as though they are there if I should ever need them, feels like I fight each day to stay off them.  I just gain soooo much weight on them that becomes depressing in itself for me.

Thanks for your dosage on Oestrogel and Testim - hope I can get me some of that!  My hubby could do with at least a week of me feeling 'interested'!

I asked him yesterday if he has noticed any differences in me since DHEA, HRT etc. and he said there is a definite improvement in my attitude to dealing with things.  He said in the past things that would have floored me I am now apparently coping better with.  Funny how you don't see it yourself.

I wonder if you could use the Utrogestan vaginally if that would help?  I have been lurking on this site for a while and see some ladies do that?  Maybe that could help you? 

To go from such a high to the awful low proves to me it is hormonal - and to have such a reaction to the progesterone proves it too?  Again I am no medic just my opinion.

Also altering the dosage too quickly because we don't see a change seems to be an issue (again after reading on here) for some people.

I want to pump myself full to the brim of it all but having to tread carefully as I know I react easily to changes in any meds so can imagine hormones are gonna be a nightmare if I overdo it too quickly.

I have also read on here (thank you lovely ladies!) that after having no Oestrogen for soooo long your body can become a bit 'eek' at it being introduced (sorry I have no decent vocabulary these days I just cannot think of the word) - so maybe it will take a little time to settle on the dose for you especially as you are so young aswell?  Also too much Oestrogen can be a problem?

I totally understand what you are going through re:  anxiety and no-one getting it.  My hubby is the most patient man - I would have got rid of me years ago - but he cannot understand why some days I want to do things and others I want to hide away.  No-one can know unless they have been through it.  This is why I really think (and dearly hope) it is hormonal - why up and then down?  With no significant issues going on in our lives (well not mine at the moment thankfully) why the heck would we be reacting like this?

Also wonder if it's worth you emailing Dr. Currie?  Can't hurt to have a second opinion. 

Sorry I am not much use, wish I could wave a big magic wand for us all - you are right we deserve big shiny medals! 

Take care

CW
 

Definitely no need to be sorry!  my Dr's are the same! Useless most of the time  said I was too young to have hormone problems so didn't bother to test  I've been given god only knows how many different AD's over the last 2/3 years when maybe all I needed was hormones? And not to be told its all in my head!
When I first went to see Prof Studd he prescribed 3 pumps of the Oestrogel, a tube of testim to last a week and Utrogestan for 7 days at the start of each month. This was back in June but he wanted me to wait till sep to start the Utrogestan. After a couple of weeks we upped the Oestrogel to 4 pumps and by the August I was fantastic! Much much more confidence, happier, more optimistic and my libido hit the roof! Hubby didn't know what had hit him  . Then the Utrogestan  I felt like I'd gone back to square one and haven't improved since. Had my follow up appt with Prof Studd at the beginning of sep, told him how I was feeling and the effect the Utrogestan had on me, he suggested to maybe think about a hysterectomy as I've already had the Mirena previously and hated it, seems I don't have much choice left? Strangely he wants me to now take the Utrogestan for 10 days per month!?  he also reduced my testim to a tube over 2 weeks.
I've since emailed him about my concerns over taking Utrogestan and he said to skip Octobers dose. I just don't understand how I went from feeling so good to feeling so crap and back to square 1  its the anxiety, makes you feel like your going mad, really scary and nobody really understands how it feels unless they've experienced it. My hubby is brilliant and so supportive but I'm scared to tell him exactly how I feel sometimes as I think he'll think I'm insane.
I've gone from thinking it was the Utrogestan that set me back to my testosterone being too high, then my oestrogen being too high ( I've reduced myself back to 3 pumps without telling Studd ) now I just feel like none of its working and what's the point of being on any of it?? I'm also on 2 AD's that obviously ain't doing much but scared to come off them in case things get worse!
I was never like this before, never been the life and soul of the party but this is something else, had mild post natal depression after my first daughter 20 years ago but even that was a walk in the park compared to how I feel now!

We really deserve medals for having to go through all this 

Estelle 

[Suzyq]

Estrogen builds up in your system so if you felt great then didn't after a couple of months, I would try reducing it! I get very bad anxiety when my estrogen is too high - work slowly with no big changes and chart your progress and symptoms

[Chi chi]

That's funny, my hubby says to me I'm doing so much better, some days I feel it but most of the time I think "what's he on about"? 
I'd love to come off my AD's but sooo scared in case things get worse!  would be nice to know if some of my probs are actually side effects of the bloody things?
I think once you've been "diagnosed" with depression or anxiety everything just gets blamed on that, easier for them I suppose  they make you feel like your a crazy hypochondriac 
I'm also really impatient with everything especially with meds, I get so frustrated when nothing seems to be happening, makes me doubtful. After all the AD's, therapy, counselling you just get used to nothing working and kinda believing nothing will 
I did mention in an email to Prof Studd about trying the Utrogestan vaginally, he didn't respond to that?? Kinda feel I've been given treatment and just left to get on with it  wether it works or not.
I did wonder if my estrogen was too high so I've reduced down to 3 pumps (studd doesn't know) that was about 2 weeks ago, still no change really
It's all so confusing, so many variables, too little estrogen and too much estrogen cause similar symptoms, too little testosterone or too much?? I know blood tests are sometimes not considered helpful and its about how you feel but there must be a level that is considered too much??

Oh well carry on we must, another day and all that! 

Estelle