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[Chi chi]

Just thinking out loud here really but am wondering if my oestrogen is now too high?? I'm still on 4 pumps of the Oestrogel. My main symptoms are anxiety, low mood and still really achy 
I keep reading about how our hormones are supposed to be "balanced" but I don't know what my progesterone is as it wasn't tested? Proff Studd thinks i am progesterone intolorant. My oestrogen was on the lower end of normal and my testosterone was low.

Sorry for all the questions, the more I read the more I confuse myself  I'm just tying to figure out what could cause me to go from feeling so good to so bad? 

[Rowan]

Estelle here is a article on estrogen excess from a good reliable website

http://surmeno.blogspot.co.uk/2006/03/symptoms-of-estrogen-imbalance.html

It basically says you should take heed with what your body is telling you.

It is for surgical menopause but the information is still relevant for all women.

[Chi chi]

Thank you Silverlady, that makes a LOT of sense, definitely an interesting read  the part about orgasms is spot on! Poor old hubby thought it was because of him (bless him ) 
I'm off out in a min but when I get back I'm going to have a good read on that site! 
Thank you again 

[Hurdity]

Hi Estelle

You are not menopausal though are you I thought, but being treated for low oestrogen as I understood? Have you had any blood tests recently at diffferent times in the month to see what your levels are.

You won't be getting excess oestrogen relative to progesterone because Prof Studd will have prescribed the right amount of progesterone to prevent your womb lining from thickening. Progesterone doesn't need to be measured because the dose will ensure your womb in protected and the balance will be right

However if your own cycle is very strong and your own oestrogen increases, then your absolute levels may be high - and occasionally there is a condition with very high levels whereby it ceases to have an effect - but sure Prof Studd knows what he's talking about when it comes to hormones.

I think you mentioned you were taking testosterone as well and I can imagine when taking these hormones externally it might be difficult to judge it just right.

The tricky thing with oestrogen is that our cycle is designed to fluctuate from low to high and down again but replacement keeps it high all the time - although it is like this in pregnancy too! In your case your PND would have been caused by low oestrogen, I understand.

I think in your case the best thing to do is to follow what Studd has given you, but be prepared to tell him how you feel and get him to figure it out - but of course read up as much as you can too of the right information!

I hope you begin to feel better again soon.

Hurdity x

[Chi chi]

Thanks Hurdity 
I really don't know anymore lol  all I do know is something has changed?? I just don't feel as good as I did and just looking for possible reasons why?

My first test was 125 and that was taken on the first day of a bleed, my second was 1001 but I've no idea where I was in my cycle  Is that a huge increase?

My next appt with Prof Studd isn't for another 6 months, I can email him and I know he's a busy man but he does take a week or so to reply which is quite frustrating sometimes 

I'm so confused with it all 

[Hurdity]

I can understand your confusion Estelle - our endocrine systme is extremely complex and governed by delicate feedback mechanisms and when we start replacing hormones the whole system has to re-balance with all the cellular mechanisms adjusting!

From what you say - and I presume the estradiol readings are in pmol/l (they normally are in UK) - that would be a high reading if it was sustained, but of course it really does depend on where in the cycle it was taken. It would be a good reading for the middle point in the cycle and I assume your own hormones would fall somewhat throughout the cycle.

Here is some information about the reference ranges - on Wikipedia - but the scientific references used look valid (scroll down):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estradiol This shows also how the oestradiol levels vary throughout the cycle and from woman to woman.

Although blood tests are unreliable it would be instructive in your case to have a test eg on Day 1,  Day 5 and Day 14 for a couple of months - but not sure if docs do that sort of thing.

Did you say you were reducing testosterone as well? Could this be giving rise to some of your symptoms? Also do they remain throughout your cycle or more at some times than others? Are the symptoms improved generally for which you take oestrogen in the first place?

Sorry not to be able to be more helpful. Are you able to telephone his secretary? After all I know he charges a lot of money so you are entitled to proper follow-up advice! Six months seems a long time to wait.

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

I would send an e-mail - he may want to bring the appt. forwards or can give advice as to dosage etc..

[Chi chi]

Hi again,
Thanks for the replies  I don't think the symptoms are from reducing the testosterone as I had them before reducing it, everything seemed to change when I had the Utrogestan for 7 days back at the beginning of sep  my mood dropped then the anxiety and loss of confidence, foggy head etc it just hasn't improved since then??
At first I thought it was maybe just the Utrogestan and things would get back to how it was before taking it, then when Prof Studd reduced my testosterone I thought it was because my level was now too high? (8.3 nmol) now im thinking is it because I'm having too much estrogen  He kept me on 4 pumps per day.

Re my blood tests, like I say my 1st was taken on the first day of a bleed since stopping the cerazette 6 weeks previously. The 2nd was taken on 11 Sep which was 11 days after having my first lot of Utrogestan (stopped on 7th) I was told to expect a bleed around the 10th, I had a small loss of blood on the 13th but only for that night? So the test/results were 2 days before this small bleed, would that be classed at around the start of my cycle??
As I don't really know what's going on with my cycle it would be difficult to arrange blood tests on the days you recommend, although saying that I did have another what I would call a proper period the following week (20th sep) which lasted for a few days and was quite heavy, should I go from that as my cycle and go from there?? Prof Studd charges quite a lot for blood tests and I don't know if my GP would do them? Could I do saliva tests at home as it would be considerably cheaper? Are they that accurate?

Sorry again for bombarding you with all these questions I just feel in limbo at the mo and don't really know what's going on. If I ring Prof Studd's assistant as she's only his nurse she would probably need to speak to him? When I email him it takes  week or so for a reply and then he's quite blunt in his reply and doesn't seem to answer my questions or concerns, he offered another meeting but that would be another £200 and train journey into London 

[CLKD]

No one is 'only' a Nurse  ……… she may be able to give general answers to queries from patients who 'phone and will certainly be able to discuss them with him.  £200.00 is about 'right' for a private appt. - I would expect a full hour for that amount.

[Chi chi]

I wasn't in any way trying to put nurses down I think they do a great job, in fact  I wanted to be one myself only the long hours they have to do put me off 

£200 for a full hour  I'm lucky if I get 20 mins! 

[Rowan]

Proff Studd must making a fortune! those fees are exorbitant, he also has a reputation of not being too patient with those women who have problems with his regime.   

Your GP could prescribe the same hormones on the NHS . You won't get the testosterone but I am not convinced that all (even if they have had a complete hysterectomy) women need to supplement it, its tricky to get right, also taking blood test for hormone levels is tricky too as the levels can change from hour to hour.

I am not sure of your circumstances regarding why you are on hormones Estelle, but it seems to me that your body is confused and overwhelmed, adding hormones are suppose to make you feel better and more normal, maybe you should rethink them and the situation and save yourself a lot of money.
 

[Chi chi]

Hi silverlady, I certainly feel confused and overwhelmed 
I went to see him as I felt something was just not quite right with me, been to GP countless times only to be told its anxiety and depression  maybe I'm anxious and depressed because I don't feel right!?  lots of symptoms but GP was never really interested and just wanted to dish out AD's.
Anyway thanks to Prof Studd we found my estrogen was low, testosterone was virtually non existant and i am oestioporatic in one of my hips. Due to all of this and my history he prescribed Oestrogel, Testim and Utrogestan. Approx 3 months into treatment I felt 100 times better! Then I took my first lot of Utrogestan and it all went downhill from there 
We thought that going to see Prof Studd with his extensive knowledge was the best thing to do??

[Rowan]

I do hope he can sort it out Estelle, I still think it unfair he charges you again after the first initial payments, it should be seen as on going treatment, but I suppose that's the way it is.

If you only have to take the Utrogestan every three months, maybe its adding it to the other hormones that causes you to go downhill, many women react to large doses of progesterone. Once you get back onto the estrogen and testosterone only you will feel better again and just grit your teeth when its time to take Utrogestan again.

It does not matter how much a professional knows about hormones, women are not text book cases and each woman is going to react differently to hormones their own or added.

Good luck with Stud if you see him again Estelle.
 

[Hurdity]

Hi Estelle

If Prof Studd found that your oestrogen and testosterone were low, then they do need supplementation and their deficiency will partially explain your symptoms, and I appreciate you have suffered over the years as you mentioned earlier.

As I said before finding the right balance from externally applied hormones is very tricky and especially for progesterone intolerant women.

By the way saliva testing is inaccurate so there is no point in doing this at all.

The fees are eye-watering! If you are considering a different gynaecologist I would suggest Nick Panay who is equally eminent but I understand maybe has a better bedside manner. I know he does practice both privately and on the NHS and no idea what his fees are. He has done a lot of research - some with Prof Studd and I think was a recent Chair of the Brisith Menopause Society. Also was the leading author of the paper in 2013 with latest recommendations about HRT.

Now I am just remembering that maybe you are not menopausal but have hormonal depression so not sure if that is his area of expertise. Just a thought and I hope is helpful.

Hurdity x