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[Joyce]

GPs at my surgery happily look up their meds bible when I ask if  anything they are giving me contains lactose as I'm lactose intolerant. They will also look up stuff and print off things fir me to read at home. So surprised to see you saying your GP hasn't got time to read print offs. He/she should if doing job right. If your appointment runs over, so be it. It's not your fault. If you think you need longer ask for a double appointment.

[Dancinggirl]

Hi Dandelion - oh dear,  you are in a bad way!!
Your GP practise should be able to give you a double appointment if you ask - this is often necessary when there is a need for discussion. 
I don't think you are quite understanding about what I am trying to tell you about the different HRT types.  You are on a good dose of oestrogen with Femoston but the patches may not give you any more relief from the flushes or sweats as you will probably be getting the same about of oestrogen. What will be different will be the progesterone(norethisterone) which could give you problems with PMT type symptoms.
You have become convinced that Utrogestan (micronised progesterone) will solve your problems when in fact it won't make any difference to your sweats and flushes.  Utrogestan would be a good idea if you were getting bad side effects from the progesterone in Femoston but you are not.

You need to find out why you are constantly sweating and still so anxious despite being on HRT. I believe there are other reasons.

Writing everything down and maybe printing off the stuff from this site and highlighting the section you would like them to read, actually saves time when visiting the doctor as they can quickly read through your concerns and questions and answer them in order of priority - I find it makes the best use of the time and the appointment goes much better.

Count how many flushes you have in a day - or are you simply too hot all the time?
How many times do you wake in the night as a result of a flush or sweat - or are you simply too hot all the time? If you are seriously sleep deprived this will be making you more anxious and tired - solutions to this need to be discussed.

You are on a good HRT that is not giving you side effects.  Increasing your dose may actually give more problems at this stage. I think it would be reasonable to ask to test your hormone levels to see whether the HRT is working.  If your Oestrogen level is still low then this would indicate it is not enough. At the same time the blood tests can look at other things that could be the cause of the sweating.

I think you should simply ask to have your hormone levels checked to try and understand why you are still sweating. If you need more oestrogen because your levels are still too low then they can tackle this in a different way - with possibly Oestrogel or oestrogen patches together with a Mirena or Utrogestan.
Print off this page and highlight the section about Utrogestan:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/to_progestogens.php
 -  your doctor can read about it in their own time if need be and get back to you if they feel it would be something that would be appropriate for you.
Ultimately GPs are responsible for your health and wellbeing and whilst we can ask for certain drugs /medications, any doctor has to be confident it is the right thing for their patient.  If you can be referred to a meno clinic or gynae for further advice that may also be a good option.  Blood tests first though.
I hope that helps.   Dg x

[Dandelion]

Hi Dandelion - oh dear,  you are in a bad way!!
Your GP practise should be able to give you a double appointment if you ask - this is often necessary when there is a need for discussion. 
I don't think you are quite understanding about what I am trying to tell you about the different HRT types.  You are on a good dose of oestrogen with Femoston but the patches may not give you any more relief from the flushes or sweats as you will probably be getting the same about of oestrogen. What will be different will be the progesterone(norethisterone) which could give you problems with PMT type symptoms.
You have become convinced that Utrogestan (micronised progesterone) will solve your problems when in fact it won't make any difference to your sweats and flushes.  Utrogestan would be a good idea if you were getting bad side effects from the progesterone in Femoston but you are not.

You need to find out why you are constantly sweating and still so anxious despite being on HRT. I believe there are other reasons.

Writing everything down and maybe printing off the stuff from this site and highlighting the section you would like them to read, actually saves time when visiting the doctor as they can quickly read through your concerns and questions and answer them in order of priority - I find it makes the best use of the time and the appointment goes much better.

Count how many flushes you have in a day - or are you simply too hot all the time?
How many times do you wake in the night as a result of a flush or sweat - or are you simply too hot all the time? If you are seriously sleep deprived this will be making you more anxious and tired - solutions to this need to be discussed.

You are on a good HRT that is not giving you side effects.  Increasing your dose may actually give more problems at this stage. I think it would be reasonable to ask to test your hormone levels to see whether the HRT is working.  If your Oestrogen level is still low then this would indicate it is not enough. At the same time the blood tests can look at other things that could be the cause of the sweating.

I think you should simply ask to have your hormone levels checked to try and understand why you are still sweating. If you need more oestrogen because your levels are still too low then they can tackle this in a different way - with possibly Oestrogel or oestrogen patches together with a Mirena or Utrogestan.
Print off this page and highlight the section about Utrogestan:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/to_progestogens.php
 -  your doctor can read about it in their own time if need be and get back to you if they feel it would be something that would be appropriate for you.
Ultimately GPs are responsible for your health and wellbeing and whilst we can ask for certain drugs /medications, any doctor has to be confident it is the right thing for their patient.  If you can be referred to a meno clinic or gynae for further advice that may also be a good option.  Blood tests first though.
I hope that helps.   Dg x

Hi DG Sorry this is a long one, but I need to get it out, I have had failure at the doctors regarding hrt.
I went and spoke to a different GP today, she was very thorough.
She did give me extra time.

She says that I am not allowed any more oestrogen as it is unsafe over 2mg.
She did check this with another doctor also, so I cannot fault her for not being thorough.

I said that I just cannnot go on with the flushes and sweats anymore so I may consider buying my hormones privately out of my DLA.

Since menopause, my mood has also been horrible. Before menopause, I did have mental health challenges, but I also used to enjoy good moods some of the time.
Menopause took that away from me.

I don't really know what to do now.
I cannot go on with uneffective femoston 2mg and I cannot go without hrt cos without femoston it would be even worse, but I need something to take away these flushes, sweats and meno induced low permanent mood.

This new doctor looked in her book to see if micronised progesterone was there, and it wasn't. My other main GP also looked for it under utrogestan and it wasn't there, so, as far as my surgery is concerned utrogestan aks micronised progesterone does not exist.

The doctor also noted that I suffer from migraine auras from time to time and that put her off too.

Will not having enough oestrogen put me at risk of heart disease and osteoporosis?

I'd go to the private clinic, in bristol which will cost me loads to get to on public transport. It costs £84 for an initial visit, I think, but if I need follow ups I will have to pay more. This is the nearest meno clinic to me. I would have a train and possibley 2 buses to get there.

I'm hot most of the time and if I exert myself slightly, i.e, walk slowly to the shop, 5 mins away, I end up drenched in sweat.
I sleep with a fan on and the heat does wake me up, so I get around six hours of sleep a night. I wake up sweating but if I didn't have the fan on, I would wake up soaked.

I live near some trees and a field, and I get a lot of wildlife around. I have always loved listenig to the wildlife and the owls while laid in bed, but the noise of the fan drowns out the sounds of nature by night. Listening to the wildlife was something that I did for my mental health also, because I find it very healing to listen to nature before I sleep, but I feel deprived of that, as I get too hot and need a fan.

I've got an apointment with my own GP on the 9th October.
Whenever I have brought print-outs in, even if I have highlighted the main text, my doctor just switches off. I used to be addicted to valium, doctors wean people off too quick causing more troubles, I brought printouts from a professor and psychiatrist who devised a slow weaning off, but my doctor said she had no time to read the prints.
I am well off valium now, luckily, my GP did give me the time to taper slowly, so I got off on 0mg with no post withdrawals thanks to the GP co-operation.

I cant complain about the doctor today, she is just doing the best she knows, but she is going on out of date information, saying the oestrogen is risky. She did take more time. She was a trainee, but she did better than some of the established GP's cos she was thorough.

As most if not all women do well on the max dose of oestrogen 2mg, I am also beginning to wonder if my sweating and flushes are a result of another medical problem.
I might go and ask my GP for a thyroid test, althogh I did have one.
Since menopause, I have gained a few stone. I look well on it, but it is weight gain, and it, together with sweating flushes is a symptom of something.
I know hyper-thyroidism is weight loss though, so maybe not thyroud.
I am just guessing at the moment, and suffering really badly, not knowing why 2mg oestrogen is not helping me like it does other women.

Now that my doctors have nothing, hormone wise to give me, due to the risks they perceive, I dunno if there is any point having another blood hormone level test, as they are unreliable anyway, but I await the advice of this site.

To be honest, I feel a bit too intimidated to go back and talk about my sweating and flushes and I feel even more scared to say I am not getting enough oestrogen. I am only peri so I find it hard to believe that 2mg is not enough.

[honeybun]

Why don't you email Dr Currie for advice and explain everything to her. It costs £25 and would be much cheaper than the meno clinic.

Exertion does not generally cause hot flushes as you describe. It really does sound as if you have something else going on.

Dancing Girl has explained Utrogestan really well. I'm not sure how else any of us can say it......It does not help flushes which is your only issue.

Buying HRT from the internet is really not a good idea. You would not have a clue what the safe dosage would be and you could make yourself very ill indeed. Please reconsider this.

You can ask your GP for a referral to a meno clinic.

You need to look for other reasons for your sweating as it really does not sound as if it's hormone related.


Honeyb
x

[Dancinggirl]

Dandelion - Do read through my last post again as I do cover most of your issues in detail.
honeybun and I both think there is something else going on to make you sweat and I think you suspect this - so get the sweating investigated.
Did the GP today get some blood tests done?  If not then when you go back on the 9th Oct ask for a blood test to look at your hormones levels. 
When I was peri menopausal I did try the patches which are the same dose as you are taking and I felt very agitated and sweaty I think because the oestrogen level was too high - I didn't like this at all so went on a lower dose again.  There has been another lady posting on here who tried going on a very high dose of oestrogen and has now reduced down to a lower dose and feels much better.  A blood test looking at your oestrogen level might show whether things are either too high or too low -  if the levels are just right then it must be something else causing the sweating.
The GP you have just seen is absolutely right about not using more than 2mg of oestrogen - you are taking the maximum amount so if your sweating is a menopausal symptom then your shouldn't be sweating all the time!!!!
Are you taking any ADs at the moment?  Dg x

[Dandelion]

Why don't you email Dr Currie for advice and explain everything to her. It costs £25 and would be much cheaper than the meno clinic.

Exertion does not generally cause hot flushes as you describe. It really does sound as if you have something else going on.

Dancing Girl has explained Utrogestan really well. I'm not sure how else any of us can say it......It does not help flushes which is your only issue.

Buying HRT from the internet is really not a good idea. You would not have a clue what the safe dosage would be and you could make yourself very ill indeed. Please reconsider this.

You can ask your GP for a referral to a meno clinic.

You need to look for other reasons for your sweating as it really does not sound as if it's hormone related.


Honeyb
x

Hi

Thanks I will email Dr Currie.

We don't have a meno clinic here, some areas don't have them, we are one of those unfortunate ones.

Yeah even a walk to the shop has me sweating, but only in my upper body.
Bed is a nightmare as i get so overheated, i feel like I have a heating element where my heart is.
Bra often wet, neck often wet. I even cut off all my hair as I could not stand the wet collar length hair hanging wet around my neck wet.

My doctor didn't mention any other sweat and flush causing illnesses today, wouldn't she have said if I had something else wrong?

[Dandelion]

Dandelion - Do read through my last post again as I do cover most of your issues in detail.
honeybun and I both think there is something else going on to make you sweat and I think you suspect this - so get the sweating investigated.
Did the GP today get some blood tests done?  If not then when you go back on the 9th Oct ask for a blood test to look at your hormones levels. 
When I was peri menopausal I did try the patches which are the same dose as you are taking and I felt very agitated and sweaty I think because the oestrogen level was too high - I didn't like this at all so went on a lower dose again.  There has been another lady posting on here who tried going on a very high dose of oestrogen and has now reduced down to a lower dose and feels much better.  A blood test looking at your oestrogen level might show whether things are either too high or too low -  if the levels are just right then it must be something else causing the sweating.
The GP you have just seen is absolutely right about not using more than 2mg of oestrogen - you are taking the maximum amount so if your sweating is a menopausal symptom then your shouldn't be sweating all the time!!!!
Are you taking any ADs at the moment?  Dg x

Hi DG

As I am taking 2mg oestradiol in the form of femoston, this would give a false reading?

Even if I did ask the doc for hormone tetsts she would say no point cos I am not getting the evorel patch I wanted.

I don't mind asking the doc if she thinks it is something else, but something needs to be done cos I cant go on like this.

I dunno why todays GP wouldn't give me the patch, when last year, they offered me patch or pills.

thankx

[Dancinggirl]

It would be worth having a blood test done as it might show what your oestrogen levels are at that time - either high or low or just right.  If you are on HRt the level would include the oestrogen you are getting from the Femoston.  I would still be concerned if you changed the type of HRT you are on as Femoston has not given you nasty side effects whereas another type of HRT might! I do wonder if you are actually on too high a dose - this is why a blood test may be advisable.
There are sometimes issues with absorption with patches especially if you sweat quite a bit  as this could be a problem. Some women report that the patches don't stick well so then the hormones aren't absorbed.
Did you actually ask the GP if there could be some other reason why you are sweating so much?
Feeling constantly hot and sweaty, as you are telling us, is not always a menopause symptom.
I still think you need to write down your problems and questions and give these to your GP at the beginning of the session so they can address things in a calm way.
ARe you on any ADs at the moment?
Dg x

[Dandelion]

It would be worth having a blood test done as it might show what your oestrogen levels are at that time - either high or low or just right.  If you are on HRt the level would include the oestrogen you are getting from the Femoston.  I would still be concerned if you changed the type of HRT you are on as Femoston has not given you nasty side effects whereas another type of HRT might! I do wonder if you are actually on too high a dose - this is why a blood test may be advisable.
There are sometimes issues with absorption with patches especially if you sweat quite a bit  as this could be a problem. Some women report that the patches don't stick well so then the hormones aren't absorbed.
Did you actually ask the GP if there could be some other reason why you are sweating so much?
Feeling constantly hot and sweaty, as you are telling us, is not always a menopause symptom.
I still think you need to write down your problems and questions and give these to your GP at the beginning of the session so they can address things in a calm way.
ARe you on any ADs at the moment?
Dg x

Hi DG

I already said, (in my earlier post) that I only sweated in the upper part of my body only.
A patch would go on the lower part of my body.
I don't sweat below the breasts. Breasts and above.
Lower part of my body is normal. No overheating.

Meno is the only condition I know that involves upper body sweating and overheating. Something is making me unable to sleep without a fan at night.
I never asked the doctor if the sweating could be anything else, because when I googled only menopause came up.
I told the GP today about the flushes and she never said anything about it being something else, she did a thorough job with me, no fobbing me off, etc, so I would have expected her to tell me if she was concerned my flushes may be due to some other problem.

I see the GP I normally see on the 9th October, so I may ask her why would they not give me the patches, that they had offered me when I first went on HRT.

It did not occur to me to ask the doctor that today.
Sometimes, I have a fear of people and things that are obvious, do not occur to me.

I will also ask her if she thinks the upper body flushes and sweats could be being caused by a non menopausal problem.
I just want to get it sorted, whatever the cause is.
It's really ruining my quality of life.

I will email doctor currie, do you know how to go about it please?

[honeybun]

The patches are no stronger than the HRT that you are taking and you are going to add in the progesterone that a lot of women struggle with.

Sorry but that makes no sense to me at all.

Sometimes you just have to accept that medication does not always work.


Honeyb
x

[Dandelion]

The patches are no stronger than the HRT that you are taking and you are going to add in the progesterone that a lot of women struggle with.

Sorry but that makes no sense to me at all.

Sometimes you just have to accept that medication does not always work.


Honeyb
x

Sorry but I don't find your post helpful.
I cannot help the physical symptoms I am having, and no one can blame me for wanting rid of them.

I have never come across a perimenopausal woman for whom such a high dose of femoston has no effect on fushes.

The doctor today said the patches were, but we all know that doctors are pretty clueless when it comes to hormone replacement therapy.

Not all women struggle with norethistrerone, I've never had PMT, but like we said above, the cause of my misery may not be meno, so I will ask the doctor next time I see her if the cause could be something else.

It restricts my life, I can't sleep over at anyone elses place because I need my fan, then there's the IBS on a morning, it's a real pain in the ar*e and disrupts my life. I get afraid to go places in case I get too hot, because overheating makes me anxious as well as sweaty.
I have not been myself in other ways for the last five years, something has gone wrong, and whatever the cause, I want to get to the bottom of it. I want my quality of life.

[Taz2]

Dandelion - as you say - you have never come across another women who doesn't get a good result from such a high dosage of  HRT which surely means that something other than menopause may be to blame for your symptoms? I don't understand why you say that the patch goes on your lower body which doesn't sweat. The patch is absorbed into your whole system not just the lower half. It's just that it's safer to stick the patch away from the breasts.

Members are only trying to help you. You have had a lot of good advice on here. Honeybun's post is just saying it as it is. I think it's Rosebush who also didn't get relief from HRT.

Taz 

[honeybun]

Sorry Dandelion. I did not mean to be unhelpful.

I wish you luck with your search for help.

I will not add anymore to this thread as I have no wish to upset you further.


Honeyb

[Dandelion]

Dandelion - as you say - you have never come across another women who doesn't get a good result from such a high dosage of  HRT which surely means that something other than menopause may be to blame for your symptoms? I don't understand why you say that the patch goes on your lower body which doesn't sweat. The patch is absorbed into your whole system not just the lower half. It's just that it's safer to stick the patch away from the breasts.

Members are only trying to help you. You have had a lot of good advice on here. Honeybun's post is just saying it as it is. I think it's Rosebush who also didn't get relief from HRT.

Taz 

Hi Taz

Anyone in my shoes would be wanting to feel better.

To be honest, your post doesn't help so much either.
It's like your both being hostile.
Why?
Because I am getting hot flushes and sweats, and dare to complain my hrt may not be working?

DG missed the fact that I said I sweat on my upper body only.
That is why she mentioned about a patch not sticking due to sweat.
I would stick the patch on my lower body, where there is no sweat, so no problem with patch not sticking.

You hated having to deal with hot flushes and sweats, so do I.
Nothing wrong with that.

I do feel a bit of a hostile vibe on here.
I've put up with these horrible flushes and sweats for over a year now, what's the point in suffering more with them?

[Dancinggirl]

Hi Dandelion.  We are really not being hostile - we are trying to help. We totally understand how you feel  - the sweats and sleepless nights are truly horrid.  I think we are all concerned that you are convinced that a different HRT will make things better when in fact the patches may actually make things worse.  The progesterone in the patches could bring PMT type symptoms and because the oestrogen level is still the same as in Femoston you will not actually get any reduction in the sweats.
Sorry I missed the fact you only sweat in the upper part of your body but it is still true that many women have issues with patches staying in place and as you are having to shower or bath so much because of the sweating this could also be an issue.
It can be very difficult to be objective about what is the best thing to do - especially when you feel so rotten. Your frustration with your GPs and the treatment you are getting doesn't help.  Sadly doctors are human - they have a challenging workload and many of us have experienced that horrid feeling that they simply don't understand and come away from an appointment feeling angry and frustrated. 

A colleague of mine at work was struggling just like you with sweats and poor sleep despite taking HRT and her GP gave her a low dose of Citalopram to take alongside the HRT.  She is a new women - she has lost weight, is far happier and is enjoying life.  There are many women who need this extra bit of help so I am wondering if this route could be an option for you.

This is why I feel you need to go to the next appointment with a slightly different agenda.
Instead of asking for specific things, go with a list of questions e.g.:
Why am I experiencing excessive sweating day and night?
Could there be any other reason, apart from menopause, for this sweating?
Would a blood test show whether I am on too much or too little oestrogen?
Could a blood test show any other issues that could be making me sweat so much?
Do I need a referral to a gynaecologist for further advice about menopause symptom control?
Can you review the other drugs I am taking? (If you are taking anything else?)
Is there anything else I can take alongside the HRT to relieve the sweats and anxiety?
By letting the GP lead the way, in my experience, this brings a far better outcome from an appointment. 
I do hope that is helpful.
Good luck    DG xxx