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[sunchick]

Hi there everyone,

I haven't posted before although I've dipped into the site on & off over the years - love the depth of knowledge and the support here.

Anyway, have noticed a growing trend in the posts about the 'no HRT over 60 rule' and thought I'd add my experience. I had a relatively early meno, was about 46 I think. My gem of a doctor gave me the results of my blood tests, told me I was entering menopause, and said 'HRT?'  Oh yes, I replied, gimme!  After trying a 28 day cycle (can't remember the name of it) and turning into the Bitch Queen from Hell during the prog phase, he suggested a long cycle one - Tridestra.  It was perfect for me from the start and I happily stayed with it for years.

Due to house moves over the years I've seen various GPs. All said that as long as I was well-informed about the risks & benefits, it was my decision and they were happy to prescribe. All except the last one, that is. Ooh, you're 59 - you should let nature take it's course, dear - it isn't normal to keep taking medication to prevent what should have happened years ago.....  After much debate with this (seemingly) 12 year old girl, she gave me another 3 months. You wait till you're 59 I thought. Then I went back and saw an older lady GP. Aha, someone with a bit of sense & sympathy? Nah. Same mantra as the 12 year old. Wrangled another 6 months, but she made it plain that I was very naughty and this would be the last time, I am supposed to accept everything the meno might throw at me and smile through it.

Meanwhile, I married my man and we decided to move to Spain. In the back of my mind I was worried about giving up HRT, especially as Spanish doctors aren't keen on prescribing it. I took the last of my Tridestra back in February and after a couple of weeks thought, well this isn't so bad - maybe the doctors were right. Then, oh my God, I'm so hot!!! Why is the bed soaked when I wake up every morning?  Arghh, my joints hurt and I've got a constant headache, and I can't think properly. And the Bitch Queen from Hell is back!  Plus, it's 25 degrees outside and I'm burning up from the inside too.  Sod this for a lark. I know my own body, I know my family history, and I've weighed up all the risks and benefits.

Now, Tridestra isn't licenced for use in Spain (France, Switzerland, Germany, yes but not Spain.) I considered the combi route but after reading of others' experiences here it seemed a bit hit and miss, I especially didn't fancy taking continuous prog. I'm prepared to put up with a period every three months, and I know Tridestra works for me.  Looking on the Tridestra packaging and using the net, I realised that I could put it together myself. Armed with the list of ingredients I called into the local pharmacy. The really helpful guy helped me source the Spanish brands of estradiol valerate and medroxyprogesterone and we put together the doses needed to make a 3 month pack of Tridestra. I took my first tablet last night (Thursday) and this morning woke (after a proper sleep) with a nice dry bed. I didn't think it would work that fast, but wow! And today instead of the 20 or so flushes, I've had three, and they were nowhere as severe as they have been.

I guess here in Spain we're lucky. Most medication is available over the counter (including the various brands of HRT but unfortunately not mine), the pharmacists are practically as knowledgable as the doctors regarding meds and very helpful with advice, especially with things like sore throats etc. - saves having to see a GP for e.g. an antibiotic which you know works for something you've had before. Of course I'm not advising passing over the GP, but I think you know when you need to see a doctor and when you really don't - if something minor lingers on naturally you head for the surgery! I'm registered with a GP here and the Spanish health service is superb, but - well, you ladies know the problems and frankly I don't fancy doing battle over the 60 years old thing again, this time in my limited Spanish. I will tell my GP what I'm taking next time I go, but it's good to know she can't keep them from me the way that the doctors in the UK do. By the way, it's very inexpensive to buy - a 30 pack of estradiol costs £2.30.

So, that's my tale. Yes, I know it's against all the rules but I don't feel I'm ready to fade away into accepting the 'natural order' just yet. And I also think that the 60 limit is a bit arbitrary, surely we're all different? Hopefully soon, the rule-makers will have a re-think as the number of women like me grows larger, we feel better with HRT and they can't really give us a definitive reason to stop. Quality of life ladies, quality of life!

 

[Meg]

Dear Sunchick

I only wish from what you are saying that I lived in Spain.  I am coming up to sixty in August.  The menopause symtoms have gone on for ten years and it is true what you are saying about doctors in this country.  I cannot see that symptoms get better for many women though I know that we all have our own experiences.  I am so glad that you found the form of HRT that suits you.  The sweating etc etc can severely affect quality of life.  The issues to do with sleep alone have a profound effect.  Good luck and good health to you for the future.

Meg

[coolatlast]

Hi there everyone,

I haven't posted before although I've dipped into the site on & off over the years - love the depth of knowledge and the support here.

Anyway, have noticed a growing trend in the posts about the 'no HRT over 60 rule' and thought I'd add my experience. I had a relatively early meno, was about 46 I think. My gem of a doctor gave me the results of my blood tests, told me I was entering menopause, and said 'HRT?'  Oh yes, I replied, gimme!  After trying a 28 day cycle (can't remember the name of it) and turning into the Bitch Queen from Hell during the prog phase, he suggested a long cycle one - Tridestra.  It was perfect for me from the start and I happily stayed with it for years.

Due to house moves over the years I've seen various GPs. All said that as long as I was well-informed about the risks & benefits, it was my decision and they were happy to prescribe. All except the last one, that is. Ooh, you're 59 - you should let nature take it's course, dear - it isn't normal to keep taking medication to prevent what should have happened years ago.....  After much debate with this (seemingly) 12 year old girl, she gave me another 3 months. You wait till you're 59 I thought. Then I went back and saw an older lady GP. Aha, someone with a bit of sense & sympathy? Nah. Same mantra as the 12 year old. Wrangled another 6 months, but she made it plain that I was very naughty and this would be the last time, I am supposed to accept everything the meno might throw at me and smile through it.

Meanwhile, I married my man and we decided to move to Spain. In the back of my mind I was worried about giving up HRT, especially as Spanish doctors aren't keen on prescribing it. I took the last of my Tridestra back in February and after a couple of weeks thought, well this isn't so bad - maybe the doctors were right. Then, oh my God, I'm so hot!!! Why is the bed soaked when I wake up every morning?  Arghh, my joints hurt and I've got a constant headache, and I can't think properly. And the Bitch Queen from Hell is back!  Plus, it's 25 degrees outside and I'm burning up from the inside too.  Sod this for a lark. I know my own body, I know my family history, and I've weighed up all the risks and benefits.

Now, Tridestra isn't licenced for use in Spain (France, Switzerland, Germany, yes but not Spain.) I considered the combi route but after reading of others' experiences here it seemed a bit hit and miss, I especially didn't fancy taking continuous prog. I'm prepared to put up with a period every three months, and I know Tridestra works for me.  Looking on the Tridestra packaging and using the net, I realised that I could put it together myself. Armed with the list of ingredients I called into the local pharmacy. The really helpful guy helped me source the Spanish brands of estradiol valerate and medroxyprogesterone and we put together the doses needed to make a 3 month pack of Tridestra. I took my first tablet last night (Thursday) and this morning woke (after a proper sleep) with a nice dry bed. I didn't think it would work that fast, but wow! And today instead of the 20 or so flushes, I've had three, and they were nowhere as severe as they have been.

I guess here in Spain we're lucky. Most medication is available over the counter (including the various brands of HRT but unfortunately not mine), the pharmacists are practically as knowledgable as the doctors regarding meds and very helpful with advice, especially with things like sore throats etc. - saves having to see a GP for e.g. an antibiotic which you know works for something you've had before. Of course I'm not advising passing over the GP, but I think you know when you need to see a doctor and when you really don't - if something minor lingers on naturally you head for the surgery! I'm registered with a GP here and the Spanish health service is superb, but - well, you ladies know the problems and frankly I don't fancy doing battle over the 60 years old thing again, this time in my limited Spanish. I will tell my GP what I'm taking next time I go, but it's good to know she can't keep them from me the way that the doctors in the UK do. By the way, it's very inexpensive to buy - a 30 pack of estradiol costs £2.30.

So, that's my tale. Yes, I know it's against all the rules but I don't feel I'm ready to fade away into accepting the 'natural order' just yet. And I also think that the 60 limit is a bit arbitrary, surely we're all different? Hopefully soon, the rule-makers will have a re-think as the number of women like me grows larger, we feel better with HRT and they can't really give us a definitive reason to stop. Quality of life ladies, quality of life!

Sunchick..... I'm so pleased there are women out there that think as you do!    I feel like printing your post off and keeping it in a safe place....so that in a couple of years, if I have a battle on my hands I can show the doctor that there are women out there that want to stay on it.
Hopefully more women will start to speak out!

[Ju Ju]

I am 60 and have just started HRT,  soon to start testosterone therapy. Because of the need for testosterone, I had to go the private route, but with the support of my GP. The gynaecologist has told me I can take it for the rest of my life. I had avoided HRT thinking it was out of the question as my sister died of breast cancer. There is no other case of breast cancer in my family, so I am told this is not a bar to taking HRT. I have thought about all the risks, but the quality of life seems more important than quantity. I come from a family who tend to live to great ages. Struggling to get up and shower and no energy to do the things I love for the rest of my life versus HRT and energy to do things, but for a shorter time. No contest.

[Sarah2]

Hi Sunchick
Glad you have been inventive and found a way round this.
I can see some UK women will be putting their orders in!
 
One thing I'd mention is that I, like you, have been on long cycle HRT for over 5 years now. I have had some episodes of spotting over that time and therefore my gynae decided to do a biopsy first of all then a hysteroscopy a year or so later. All was fine and it looked as if, with hindsight, the spotting was due to hormonal fluctuations. Reason I mention this is that long cycle HRT can increase the risk of endometrial hyperplasia which is why any unusual bleeding needs checking out.

I've now reduced my cycle to 6-7 weeks because I was having quite heavy bleeds on a 10-11 week cycle.

The other point is that I've now changed to Utrogestan as the progesterone ( as have several women here) because it's natural progesterone and some research shows it has a better safety record re. breast cancer than synthetic progestins.

So- you might want to add it to your shopping list People here can advise on dosage and it's been used in France since the 1980s.

Going back to your long cycle- if you do have any odd bleeding, don't ignore it.

[Morwenna]

Surely there must be some restrictions on the amount of Estradiol one can purchase over the counter in Spain? I would have thought the pharmacies have a duty of care? Although I remember one of my colleagues self medicating with antibiotics once when she was there on holiday! 

[Sarah2]

But what would be the point in monitoring how much anyone buys? If you are using it, then you are not going to overdose- you only buy what you need, and as it's licensed for OTC you can keep on buying for as long as you want.

[sunchick]

Hi, good morning!

Ladies, thanks for your support and the encouraging words; I was feeling kind of isolated trying to decide what to do but this forum has so much info, it helped a great deal in my decision.

Sarah2, yes I did think about Utrogestan and will probably give it a go, but I felt so crap I went the speediest route and went back to something I know. In all the years I was on Tridestra I never once had any breakthrough bleeding / spotting, but of course should it happen I will get checked out. As I said the Spanish health service is on the ball - e.g. as soon as you register you are sent an appointment for a mammogram, any anomaly (not just womens' health, men too) and you are sent for tests at once - it all seems so refreshingly efficient compared to the UK. And the hospitals are spotless, really! Poor NHS, it used to be a jewel but it's so overwhelmed now and I feel so sorry for the hard-working staff trying to cope. Hmm, UK ladies ordering - hey, I could be a drug dealer! Seriously if anyone is in dire straits I'd be happy to try and help.

JuJu, glad to hear that hopefully you're soon going to feel great - as I said, we do sometimes know what we need. I want a peaceful and enjoyable retirement, not a daily struggle - that's no fun after working all your life!
 
Coolatlast, thanks for the kind words  Yes, the more of us that speak out the sooner things may change, why should we shut up and put up - most of us paid a fortune in tax to train these doctors after all, we're entitled to be listened to.

Meg - ten years??? My God, you must be exhausted, you poor thing. A few months was enough for me, I guess I'm a real wimp! Can you not take HRT or won't they let you have it? Please, don't give up 

Morwenna, the pharmacies here are very responsible and will discuss what you are asking for and why; it's not just like popping into Asda    But here, you are treated as an adult and allowed a say in your treatment, it's a good way to go I think. I always remember being told I could only have 2 packs of paracetamol in the UK in case I 'misused' them - even the lady on the till thought it was ridiculous but those were The Rules. I'm happy to be treated as though I've got a brain and some intelligence, and to be given the chance to have some input into my health needs. I think if I'd gone in and asked for e.g. 50 packs of estradiol they'd have said no way, but I explained what I needed and why, and they couldn't have been more helpful.

Thanks again girls, so nice to know you're out there!  xxxx

[coolatlast]

Surely there must be some restrictions on the amount of Estradiol one can purchase over the counter in Spain? I would have thought the pharmacies have a duty of care? Although I remember one of my colleagues self medicating with antibiotics once when she was there on holiday! 

Morwena - Spain isn't a nanny state like the UK is.    They obviously enable their people to have some responsibility for their own bodies and well-being.

Quite refreshing actually! 

Sunchick!   when can I place my order lol?

[Rowan]

sunchick you said that

"Meanwhile, I married my man and we decided to move to Spain. In the back of my mind I was worried about giving up HRT, especially as Spanish doctors aren't keen on prescribing it" and then say it is freely available over the counter at Pharmacists

Why are Spanish doctors not keen to prescribe HRT?

I do know that progesterone gel can be bought in France from pharmacists for PMS and sore breasts but did not know all hormones can be bought OTC.

ON MM some condemn buying Natural Progesterone Cream saying it does not work and it is just a money making scheme  by unscrupulous sellers which by the way does work ( its a hormone! but in very small doses) yet are all for this way of obtaining hormones this way, I don't understand the logic here. I am sure the Spanish Pharmacists will selling natural progesterone along side the hormones too!

Please don't say that Pharmacists know what they are doing (I know they are well trained but they are not Doctors and they won't know your medical history)  they are in it for profit too, to me this sounds like a risky business, I have had a Pharmacist diagnose and sell me treatment) he was completely wrong!

I expect there will be many sides to this augment it should be interesting.

[Sarah2]

I have to defend pharmacists as I know someone who is a very good community pharmacist. They know more about drugs and the effects of drugs than most drs. They will also take your medical history and ask relevant questions before they dispense drugs. They ought to do this anyway in the UK even when you present them with a bona fide prescription because quite frankly drs sometimes make mistakes about dosage and many a disaster has been prevented by an observant pharmacist.  I could also tell you countless tales about how drs have misdiagnosed common ailments amongst members of my family which were only diagnosed correctly when they insisted on seeing a consultant.

SL- I'm not going to join in your obvious provocation about the merits or otherwise of progesterone cream by mail order, other than to say there is a difference between it and the type of products sunchick is buying from a pharmacy. End of

[honeybun]

Oh heck

Here we go again.

Can we just not agree to differ. We often have personality clashes but it seems to be getting increasingly personal and its causing a bit of an atmosphere on the forum 


Honeyb

[Rowan]

I agree with what HB has said, and sarah just its not worth the augment with you.

[Sarah2]

Oh heck

Here we go again.

Can we just not agree to differ. We often have personality clashes but it seems to be getting increasingly personal and its causing a bit of an atmosphere on the forum


HB-here we go again what? someone putting over a rational, non-personal opinion which differs from that of Silver lady?
Are people not allowed to contradict her posts?

yes you are right- here you and SL go again- making it personal. There is nothing personal in my post.
YOU are creating bad feeling.

if you continue like this- picking on me because I happen to have another opinion then I'm sorry but the moderator needs to know because it's feeling like being bullied and told some people should never be contradicted.

I don't know why this is happening because no other posters get all nasty if someone has a different opinion to them. You are making it unpleasant for others reading.

[Rowan]

Words fail me.