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Menopause Matters magazine ISSUE 76 out now. (Summer issue, June 2024)

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Author Topic: Progesterone only HRT  (Read 37896 times)

Hurdity

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Re: Progesterone only HRT
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2014, 04:41:42 PM »

Silver Fairy

You asked about the different types of oestrogen in the vaginal preparations.

As you noted Vagifem contains Estradiol and the others Estriol. Research shows that they have the same effect ie plump up the vaginal walls (and bladder area) to help alleviate VA. I think it's a matter of preference and what works for you as well as what appeals to you.

If you need a higher dose it's probably easier to double up with the Vagifem as the (vaginal) tablets are very small. I particularly like the Orthgynest pessaries (estriol) - but these are being discontinued so pointless me recommending them! They have the effect of lubrciating the area as well as plumping up the tissues. Gynest cream and Ovestin need an applicator to use which I would find a bit of a faff so not looking forward to when I can't get the pessaries... the estriol types tend to be a bit more leaky, but that's their advantage ( ie re lubrication).

Hurdity x
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Hurdity

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Re: Progesterone only HRT
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2014, 04:44:24 PM »

It this sort of information that worries me

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12225625, as I have posted on the "Other Health Issues"   

As far as this is concerned - this is new to me but I did find a more up to date review of the literature which does not appear to show a clear association with oestrogen levels and osteoarthritis, which members may like to read also.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19608726

Hurdity x
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Rowan

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Re: Progesterone only HRT
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2014, 05:17:56 PM »

I found these too

http://www.arthrolink.com/en/osteoarthritis-folders/all-folders/osteoarthritis-and-women

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2474/10/35

There were a few other links I saved quite a while ago that first started me thinking about osteoporosis and arthritis and estrogens connection.

Of cause I can't find them now.

Osteoporosis is mineral deficiency and osteoarthritis, especially Heberden's nodes, spurs etc. is over mineralisation. 
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Sarah2

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Re: Progesterone only HRT
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2014, 05:40:48 PM »

Most people have some slight OA in older age through wear and tear. I don't think it's as simple as OA is over-mineralisation. eg hip replacements are due to wear and tear on  a ball and socket joint, not high bone density.

The 2nd link above says this- OA is a disease of the joints.

There are millions of women with osteoporosis and it's a killer in old age- it kills more women than breast cancer, through complications that arise from broken hips in old age - ie pneumonia. Osteoarthritis is potentially very painful but it's not a killer in the same way.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 05:43:56 PM by Sarah2 »
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Taz2

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Re: Progesterone only HRT
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2014, 05:47:27 PM »

This got me thinking as my dad suffered dreadfully with osteo and then rheumatoid arthritis. I had a search around and found this study - so maybe osteo can be a killer too  http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.d1165

Taz x  :-\
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Dana

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Re: Progesterone only HRT
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2014, 06:34:18 AM »

I don't want to get involved in any controversy, but I will just comment on my experiences with progesterone. Everyone is different, so my experiences are not meant to be treated as any kind of “proof” of anything.

When I first began getting meno symptoms, I was fearful of “HRT” because of all the negative things people were saying about it. I always told myself that there was no way in hell I would ever use it. Famous last words.....

Around this time I'd seen an episode of Oprah where she, and Suzanne Somers, were extolling the virtues of compounded bioidenticals. Being an American show, they were pretty much saying that the only way of getting bioidenticals was to have them compounded, and made no mention at all of the fact that "bioidenticals" are in fact FDA approved and available "off the shelf".

Being completely ignorant of anything to do with hormone treatments, I believed them. In America, and to a slightly lesser extent in Australia where I live, bioidentical hormones equals compounded hormones, and vice versa. Most doctors in Australia look at you strangely when you ask about “bioidenticals”, even when you are talking about estradiol and progesterone, because they aren't categorised as being anything more than hormone treatments. The only doctors who bother with the term are the ones who prescribe the compounded hormones. This is why I am always very concerned when I see references to “bioidenticals” without further explanation, because in different countries it can mean different things.

Anyway, a friend of mine was seeing a doctor who prescribed compounded hormones, so I made an appointment to see him. The only thing he prescribed for me was compounded progesterone cream. Immediately I felt wonderful, and thought I'd found the Holy Grail. That lasted for exactly two months. Then my symptoms got much much worse. When I went back to that doctor, and asked him about estrogen, he basically told me there was nothing wrong with what he'd prescribed (prog), and that all my menopause problems were psychological. Now I'm not saying that all doctors who prescribe compounded hormones or progesterone only treatments are arrogant whackos, but that guy certainly was.

Anyway, I went to another GP, who prescribed a proper HRT treatment (Livial from memory) and everything was wonderful again.  I've had a lot of ups and downs since then, but nothing that has really been related to the type of HRT treatment I was on.

However, recently I tried using Utrogestan as a continuous method, and pretty much exactly the same thing happened. I felt fantastic at first, but after about 6 weeks, everything went really bad. Basically what happens is that my body seems to like the prog initially, but then gets overloaded with it and reacts badly. So for me continuous progesterone of any kind is a big no-no. I know for me I need estradiol, and progesterone is just a necessary evil.

It seems so many women have a huge variation in how they react to progesterone. Some get on quite well with it, especially Utrogestan, and find it sedating. Others find it revs them up or gives them other side effects. My body doesn't seem to be able to make up its mind. Sometimes it likes it, other times not. It's just a crap shoot each time I use it. I've just recently finished 12 days of Utrogestan, and had insomnia the whole time, and I'm still waiting for things to get back to normal even though it's now 3 days since I stopped it.

So I guess what I'm saying is that if anyone has only started using a progesterone only treatment, make sure you are on it for at least a few months before you know whether it is right for you, because early signs can be very positive, but they can soon change once your progesterone levels get too high. If you've been using it for a while and it's working, then that's great.

However, the OTC progesterone cream industry has become a mega-million dollar industry, and the information provided by these manufacturers are sketchy at best, and there is certainly rarely any cautionary information provided on their websites. There is a lot of concern over women who use these progesterone creams, because most of them use them without medical supervision, and are self-medicating without having anyone check their hormone levels.

Through another forum that I'm on, I come across this problem a lot, and the effects of unsupervised progesterone use is wide-spread and very scary in its ramifications. 
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Sarah2

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Re: Progesterone only HRT
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2014, 08:37:11 AM »

That's all very interesting Dana.

All I'd like to add is that the term 'bioidentical' has become a little over used perhaps and can cause confusion as in some people's minds it's synonymous with 'compounded' ( which is totally different and has been criticised heavily by some UK meno specialists- Panay in a Daily Mail article) -  as you have found!

I've always been on 'bioidentical' estrogen ( as have many women here) but it was never 'sold' to me as that by my gynae and I didn't even know the term until I started reading about compounded HRT and then twigged what it was all about!

Evidently 300mgs Utrogestan is getting near the level that women would have in pregnancy which is presumably why some women feel great on it- it's relaxing and a sedative- but for others it mimics PMS symptoms.

It's ironic that on the one hand the FDA in the US has some of the strictest rules around re. drugs, food, additives and supplements yet there is as you say a million dollar industry selling hormones in an unregulated way- compared with the way they regard HRT after the WHI study!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 08:39:07 AM by Sarah2 »
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Cassie

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Re: Progesterone only HRT
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2014, 01:24:00 PM »

Im like you Dana, too high a Utrogestan dosage, turns me into a total insomiac and makes me feel like I have had way too much caffeine, not a nice type of wired up feeling at all...
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