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[sue bot]

hi just seen this on the internet as anyone tried it or all the problems with hot sweat weight gain all thee other probs us ladys have

[honeybun]

You can do a search on this as it has been talked about before. Don't think it's much use though if I remember correctly but we are all different.
HRT is the only way to really deal with flushes.


Honeyb
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[Sarah2]

There is no real scientific evidence that it works and as you can buy it without a prescription it can't actually contain much of the hormone it's supposed to. I don't want to knock anyone who's had success with it but there seems to be a bit of a placebo effect as well as people's symptoms varying a lot during peri- which sometimes coincides with using the cream.

[Joyce]

Sorry to say this, but save your money. HRT really is the only thing which works. I tried the cream, I tried other alternatives too, all useless & waste of cash.

[Sarah2]

You should also do some research yourself- google it and you will find scientific papers- possibly some in the BMJ etc- where you will discover more.

[honeybun]

I could be wrong but I can't see this cream making any scientific papers. The best reviews will be on their own website which is always suspicious.


Honeyb
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[Rowan]

This is interesting

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16120154 

Some for some against

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/menopause/1039527-Serenity-Cream

I have used it and can honestly say it does have effects, but I have never used it for symptoms, it can certainly calm and help with sleep but it makes me dream.

Serenity does contain USP progesterone, quarter of a teaspoon provides 25- 30 mgs progesterone the amount your body makes naturally after ovulation, It obviously is not enough to counter the estrogen part in HRT, but then it never was meant to be used in that way.

It is good for the skin though

"What if progesterone had a role similar to estrogens in skin health and could be used topically to prevent or partly reverse menopausal skin deterioration? A study published in The British Journal of Dermatology in September 2005 seems to point in that direction. This 16-week study in 40 women, conducted by Dr. Holzer and colleagues, evaluated the effects of 2% progesterone cream on function and texture of the skin in women at or after menopause. The study design was robust: double-blind, placebo-controlled, and randomized. The results showed 23% increase in skin firmness, 29% reduction in wrinkle count near the eye and almost 10% reduction of the depth of laugh lines. No serious side-effects were observed"

[Hurdity]

Hi sue bot

I agree with the others -  who say that most of the evidence does not support the use of progesterone cream as being effective on controlling hot flushes other than by placebo and oestrogen is really the only treatment that works long term.

The paper about skin elasticity is interesting - and this effect of the treatment was small but statistically significant.

Re the amount of progesterone that the cream provides -  it is difficult to ascertain this as the amount in the cream is not comparable with the amount the body makes itself as much of this will not be absorbed - I imagine in much the same way that the total amount of estrogen in gel or on patches is not the same as the actual serum levels observed. Serum levels after ovulation look like roughly in the range of 8-18 ng/ml. The paper re skin elasticity states there was an increase of 0.53 ng/ml which is very small but we are not told the actual value. This could make a difference (re sedative effect) to post-menopausal women taking nothing else since the reference range is 0.2-1.0 ng/ml (also from Wiki), but only placebo controlled trials would ascertain this.

I can also accept that given a reasonable dose (not sure what this would be to have this effect) the sedative effect (sleep inducing) of progesterone might be experienced.

Interesting, however,  I have just read that max progesterone levels obtained by oral ingestion of 200 mg progesterone (Utrogestan - from product info) are comparable with those experienced during the menstrual cycle (info from Wikipedia graph of progesterone during the menstural cycle). Obviously there is a great deal of variation between women.

Hurdity x

[Sarah2]

I think the papers I was referring to were not on Serenity per se, but on the whole range of complementary products including herbs, herbal mixtures, etc, and I think Serenity was referred to but not by its trade name. It was a paper somewhere and was very critical of the advertising claims behind all these products which have notbeen proved to work, and are usually a waste of money. (That was their opinion- not mine!)

The main point though about that study linked to above is that it is not measuring the effect on hot flushes or any other meno symptoms! it's measuring skin thickness - which is completely irrelevant as far as hot flushes go!

There has been some research by the National Osteoporosis Society ( results are on their website somewhere) and Prof John Studd also (I think) has something on his website about it, saying his team have looked into it closely- because it's also marketed as a treatment for bone density. I don't take everything he says as gospel because he is an advocate of traditional HRT, and I don't know what research he has done, but I do think the NOS are a credible and honest organisation and they have no vested interests.

[sweettooth]

Sue, i agree, i tried it and it did not help at all!  I get angry sometimes when i read such claims about these miracle aids! and all the negative things about hrt.  Of course it depends on what and how severe your symptoms are as i have known some women who have mild symptoms to get relief from other alternatives such as accupunture and herbal.

S tooth x

[Dana]

There are very credible sources that I have read (eg Prof Studd and Dr Vliet) where the results of using these types of creams can range from just having a placebo effect (therefore, don't waste your money) to very serious side effects of having very high progesterone levels.

Basically these types of creams are generally used without proper medical supervision and so it is assumed that "more could be better". Not so..... There is a very interesting case study in one of Dr Vliet's books about this very issue. It had a happy ending, but the poor woman went through a lot of suffering first before she got onto proper hormone therapy.

[Dana]

There has been some research by the National Osteoporosis Society ( results are on their website somewhere) and Prof John Studd also (I think) has something on his website about it, saying his team have looked into it closely- because it's also marketed as a treatment for bone density. I don't take everything he says as gospel because he is an advocate of traditional HRT, and I don't know what research he has done, but I do think the NOS are a credible and honest organisation and they have no vested interests.

Could you elaborate on the highlighted part? Are you against HRT? You are certainly entitled to be against it if that's your choice, but as far as I'm aware I think he's pretty well versed on HRT research (from my reading anyway).

[Sarah2]

Hi Dana

I'm sorry I'm not sure what you are asking me?
I think perhaps we are not saying anything different but my post was not very clear?

No I am not against HRT at all.

 What I meant is that some people would regards Prof Studd at the far end of the pro-HRT spectrum ( and is therefore unlikely to consider any kind of complementary treatment perhaps- I don't know.)  I don't disagree with anything I've seen on his website ( though it's some time since I've read it) but there may be some complementary treatments which have some place in the treatment of the menopause ( eg acupuncture and yoga can help some women, as can dietary changes) and I am not sure that he thinks about this.

I wasn't querying his research into HRT if that is how you read it!

I don't know what research he has done on Serenity cream-I think his website says something like 'his team' has researched it- whether that meant they had done their own research or reviewed other research, I don't know. I was comparing that with the research done by the NOS who reported back on a study they'd done a few years back.

This is quite an old link but it does answer questions about progesterone cream and bones.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1697393.stm

[Rowan]

Can't really see why there is so much animosity with women about the different ways women cope with menopause. Whether its HRT, alternative methods, Serenity Cream, or a tube of smarties! if it works for the woman and she believes it works that's all that matters.

Sur bot asked about Serenity Cream ( which by the way has the correct amount of USP progesterone in it that Dr John Lee suggested)  I would advise her to find out for herself, some women swear by it others find they don't get on with it just like HRT.  I would suggest that women read Dr John  Jon Lee's books from cover to cover to find out about Natural progesterone before they give it a try , he is not hard selling it at all, he does demonise estrogen or estriol, what he tells you is how to use natural progesterone properly.

Read the books and then decide for yourself. In America compounding pharmacists will make up the cream in individual doses, just as they do estrogen, just another way women have to cope with menopause.

 There have been many scientific papers on HRT, you would think it would be perfect for every woman, but as we know on this forum it isn't.

We as women should give support to whichever way or method a woman chooses, even if its just a placebo effect, if it works for her it works.

[honeybun]

I agree SL. If it works then it works so great. I have a friend who is managing very well on sage tinctures. It did nothing for me at all, so just another example of the differences between us all.
Personally I do not care a jot if anything just gives a placebo effect. If it helps the individual then that's the whole point.
HRT is not there to cure anything. It will never make the menopause go away, it is for symptom management.
My hubby is diabetic and his life relies on insulin. Quite simply put if he does not inject every day he will die. There is nothing that can replace that for him.

If I stop my HRT my symptoms will return and probably lessen over time but I will not die from them.

It's what works for the individual that's the most important thing.


Honeyb
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