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Author Topic: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??  (Read 26618 times)

lubylou

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2014, 09:56:14 PM »

This is a very interesting discussion. By the way Sula maye, having read my way through a great deal of this forum, I don't think anyone ever means to be aggressive; there is always the potential for misunderstandings on forum posts. It is no real substitute for hearing a person speaking to you. Print cannot always convey the sentiment behind the words!

My experience has been that the women here are supportive. All we can do is share our personal experiences and thoughts. If only the menopause had some consistency how it manifests itself, but it is a different experience for every one of us! I think that is why having a place to share all those different experiences is a fantastically informative, but at the same time annoying, because there is no “one size fits all” experience of going through the different stages of and being menopausal !

Whether to take HRT is such a personal thing. I had early menopause and was put on HRT by my GP on his recommendation - for the long term protection of bones, heart etc. He thought the benefits outweighed the “risks”. In my ignorance I thought this was the norm for GP's, but it seems not. Here is my experience and take on things.

At that time I had no real symptoms apart from very irregular periods (they were always erratic anyway).  Long story short after various tests and procedures my GP did a blood test and announced I was menopausal and said go on HRT!   It seems that I had it easy as so many women seem to have to fight to get HRT. I was ignorant about all things menopause (no mother or close female relatives to talk to about it). So I followed the advice of my GP and went on HRT. I did not realise then that this was delaying the symptoms, up to that point I had never experienced a hot flush or night sweat.

Fast forward to 2010 when I came off HRT cold turkey (for various reasons). Wow did I know it. I had daytime flushes and was just hot to the point of feeling sick most of the night very night. I did not (and still do not) have night sweats that soak the sheets and come on suddenly and then subside after a few minutes. Mine just go on and on BUT I don't sweat as much as the feeling of a furnace inside me seems to warrant! I don't know what is worse, but I do know that I haven't slept under a duvet for over three years, a sheet and cotton blanket was my limit. But now if it is really cold I use a 2 tog silk duvet. I lasted just over a year without HRT and after that I went back on low dose HRT.
 
So to fast forward again to how things are now. I have been on low dose HRT for about two years and all that time I have had night time prolonged hot flashes (one hour flash then and 15 mins “off” and then an hour on!) . I get no daytime flushes. Over the last year I find that sometimes the night time ones don't get bad until about 04.00 am. Over last summer the flashes seemed to be reducing i.e. getting less frequent, less long lasting and less “HOT”.

I figured that sticking it out on the low dose would mean that gradually my levels would go down and I would be aware that this was happening so I could start to reduce HRT without a sudden /shock return of my symptoms.
 
So last year I decided to start to reduce, in Dec I got down to one tablet every other night.  Unfortunately after a month on the “one very other day” regime the night time symptoms came back (but daytimes were OK). So because I had several really bad nights I went back to the one HRT tablet a night dose and things seem to be settling back down.

I believe that I need to reduce very slowly (very by which I mean over a 12 month period).

My personal experience has been that an abrupt cold turkey stop of HRT is not good, my hormone levels seemed to go into a shock like state. Although I am very disappointed that my symptoms came back when I reduced at the end of last year over a 6 week period, I will try again but slowly.

I have come to the conclusion that my hormones fluctuate a lot all the time anyway, but I do think that over the last 2 years on the low dose HRT (which I needed to enable me to function day to day) my symptoms have gradually reduced over this time. So I am really hoping that if I very very gradually reduce the dose again the symptoms will also gradually reduce so I can come off HRT without too much “pain”. This is what my Gynaecologist said should happen. And this has happened in that my symptoms have lessened over the last two years and when I did reduce last year I did not get any day time symptoms. My Gynaecologist was sure I would be able to titrate down to nil, but he seemed happy for me to stay on HRT in the long term. He told me that he had one patient who managed on one tablet a week. I would like to get off HRT if I can. But if I cannot then I will stay on this low dose for as long as I need.

 My experience has been that HRT does not necessarily delay the inevitable, it can help the inevitable be a lot less severe (to the point where some women have a very poor quality of life) than it might be without taking HRT.

I hope this long diatribe helps someone!
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Taz2

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2014, 10:30:58 PM »

Hi Oldsheep - to be fair it was the menopause clinic which wanted me to stop at 60 rather than the GP. My current GP suggested I try to come off it but the GP before that was more than happy for me to stay on it for as long as I needed it once the risks had been explained. The menopause clinic transferred my care back to the GP.

I have tried both ways to come off it - cold turkey and a slow withdrawal over six months. Both ways ended up giving the same result unfortunately  :-\

Taz x
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Dancinggirl

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2014, 10:32:48 PM »

lubylou - that was really interesting. Those of us going through the withdrawal of HRT should share our experiences more - this is proving to be a very interesting thread.  I think there is a great deal of fear of what happens at this stage. Whether we choose to come off HRT or have to because our doctors insist or there are health issues, managing the withdrawal needs to be looked at.  It definitely isn't a good idea to go cold turkey and I think your story is a good example for many others of a positive way to control the withdrawal.
I only reduced my HRT over an 8 week period this time and was fully expecting full meno symptoms to return but I am pleased to say I've had relatively few flushes and the nights have not been too bad either. I was really frightened of how I would feel as last time I had a break from HRT was so awful and I did the withdrawal over about 3-4 months that time.
I hope there are more ladies who will share their withdrawal stories out there.  DG x
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Joyce

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2014, 11:01:52 PM »

I reduced my estradot patches from 50s through 37.5 over about 3/4 months. I then went down to 25s. This time last year I halved them, but after about 4 weeks was suffering too much so went back to full 25 again. Currently trying halves again. Getting odd warm moments, maybe 2/3 times daily on average, but not as bad as before. My meno consultant has been most helpful & encouraging. Both she & I hope I can get off HRT in the near future. However, if I need it, I will continue for as long as allowed.
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mamakaren

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2014, 11:28:45 PM »

Thanks lubylou. That was extremely informative and helpful to me. There really seems to be no and to what we can learn from each other!

I love this forum!

Karen
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anna123

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2014, 06:12:19 AM »

My experiences were similar to Lubyloo-I'm 39 and diagnozed with POF. My GP explained the importance of going on HRT to protect bones and heart as your body is not meant to go through meno so young and the potential risks of osteoporosis are too great to ignore.

Obviously I can't comment on HRT when used at a 'normal' meno age but assume most of it do use it to make life more worth living

I also had symptoms which have been helped by taking HRT. I don't see HRT as prolonging the inevitable at all. It is still happening . For me ,HRT just makes life now more pleasant and bearable plus gives additional benefits to bones, heart etc   
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Sarah2

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2014, 08:44:53 AM »

If it helps anyone my consultant suggests slowly coming off over 6 months, maybe supporting that with herbal products or other alternative treatments, and he says he insists that women then give themselves 6 months HRT-free to see how their bodies adjust. If their symptoms return he is then happy to prescribe HRT again if all's well.
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Taz2

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2014, 10:08:20 AM »

Hi Sarah - this approach didn't work for me unfortunately although it is worth trying. Did your consultant say what women are supposed to do during the six months without HRT while struggling with the symptoms?

Taz x
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Hurdity

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2014, 10:17:02 AM »

I suppose it's their field, whereas it certainly isn't for GPs but I do wonder if there's a NICE guideline somewhere that says no more payments for HRT prescriptions for women over 59?

I haven't managed to read all this thread yet but just on this point - here is the NICE recommendation on stopping HRT which does not mention age at all:
http://cks.nice.org.uk/menopause#!scenariorecommendation:19

Hurdity x
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Sarah2

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2014, 10:26:09 AM »

Taz- I haven't got there yet but I think I did say that he has a whole range of complementary treatments he'd suggest.
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Hurdity

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2014, 10:40:18 AM »

I don't have a  lot to add - it is all about quality of life and long term health - taking HRT and according to the views on this site, from age 60 - 70 the risks are thought to equal the benefits (under 60 the benefits are greater)
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/balance.php

Oestrogen deficiency is for ever - and all the potential long-term health problems that entails. It is not just a question of going "through" the menopause and elminating temporary symptoms.

Re coming off slowly or quickly there are a couple of small studies - I think I posted the links recently somewhere suggesting that coming off slowly or quickly didn't make any difference to the eventual outcome of whether you still experienced symptoms or not. Some women will, some women won't - just as some women will only experience flushes for a couple of years, some for 10 years. However of course, coming off slowly is much less unpleasant so even if they do come back, they will  come back more slowly!

I am 60 and still on HRT (with a uterus). I am on the medium dose 50 mcg. I recently reduced to 37.5 mcg and started to expereince flushes, the start of bladder problems and getting hotter in the night - restless sleep. My work involves being energetic and in front of groups of people so there is no way I will contemplate doing this while not feeling on top form. With the  consent of my GP I  have gonre back to 50 mcg. While my health permits it, I intend to continue until age 70 if I can.

I agree with what has already been said - even if it did prolong the inevitable (ie you may get flushes etc still) - you will have had years of better quality of life when you need it and can enjoy it, and if you have to come off later when retired/older or for health reasons - then at least you've had those years. You might be one of the lucky ones not to.

Hurdity x


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Taz2

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2014, 10:50:12 AM »

I just wondered what he thought women should do if the complementary treatments don't work. Having to wait six months while still trying to work and run a home and maybe look after elderly relatives etc. is extremely difficult.

You did say that he has a range of complementary options - most of which I probably tried last time I was without HRT - but to insist that a woman has to have at least six months HRT free is a bit frightening to women who need it in order to get through each day.

Hurdity - I found that coming off slowly or quickly didn't make any difference. I cut my patches in half as recommended by the menopause clinic but the hot sweats returned within four weeks which was the same as when I stopped cold turkey so as you say everyone is different. Both ways were unpleasant for me!

Off to the docs this afternoon to discuss going back onto HRT - hope my blood pressure is nice and low!

Taz x
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Sarah2

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2014, 11:05:30 AM »

Taz - I can't really speak for him! It's a bridge I've not yet crossed so it's not something I can comment on. He appears to think that the 6-month trial is there for a reason- I think other people/drs have said it takes 3 months for any HRT benefits to leave your system, so I suppose he's thinking another 3 months would be needed to allow the body to adjust or not. Whether this is set in stone if life was becoming unbearable for the reasons you mention, I can't say. This was a passing-conversation we had so until I actually go down that route I can't say what would happen.
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Taz2

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2014, 11:48:56 AM »

Ok - I just wondered if you had asked him. I'm five months into life without HRT and not very happy  ;D

Taz x
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honeybun

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Re: doesn't HRT just prolongue the inevitable??
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2014, 01:42:05 PM »

Stopping quickly or tailing off slowly made no difference to me. Both ended up the same way. The flushes I can sort of cope with during the day it's the ones during the night that are difficult. I have a very full on life trying to cope with a very elderly frail mother and also my own family. No sleep = not being able to cope at all. It's difficult enough even on HRT.

I can't remember the last time I felt anything approaching 100% well so for me at the moment removing my HRT is not even an option. I am trying to cut down a bit just to see how I can manage.

Honeyb
x
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