Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[nothappybun]

Thanks Hurdity and Dancingirl! I'll do that, done so tonight after reading you both!  Next month I might give it a try vaginally as I have been feeling weird, dizzy, noise in my hearing ear (deaf in one ear since 5 due to an antibiotic, streptomycin)  and upset stomach since taking them. This month I'll finish the cycle orally.
hugs and thanks again
xxx

[GuernseyGirl]

Hello All

Chipping in with my experience - a good one.

I was put on Oestrogen + Utrogestan in 2012 by a Swiss gynaecologist: one pump and a bit per day of gel and twice a week of Utro vaginally. I am intolerant of progesterone; blow up like a balloon and get breast pain. But spreading out the Utro the way I'm doing is working wonderfully well - no more insomnia, no more vaginal atrophy, no brain fog. I feel I'm getting the benefits of the oestrogen without the progesterone downside.

I take the utro on Monday and Thursday nights after climbing into bed, having applied the gel on alternating thighs during my last trip to the loo before bedtime.

I get regular lining scans and they always range from 2.5mm to 3mm. And this Swiss way, which the doctor said is a normal regime throughout France, Switzerland and Italy, produces no bleed - it keeps the lining thin on its own.

I don't think I would want to subject myself to the raging PMT-style symptoms I would have by taking it for seven consecutive days, as advised by Prof Studd. This Swiss doctor was adamant that this regime would be best for me and, four years later, I'm feeling great with no postmenopausal symptoms.

Hope this helps!

[Mary G]

GuernseyGirl, that sounds like a fantastic HRT regime if you can handle it and not suffer any side effects.  Do you take 100mg Utrogestan each time?  I tried to do a continuous combined regime and then Utro every other day and failed miserably on both - it triggered migraines - so now I only use a small amount of Utrogestan vaginally every 5 weeks or so and that seems to work.  Interestingly, 2 days of 100mg Utrogestan is my limit before I start to feel side effects so perhaps this is the threshold for most women.

However, I wonder if I might just try your regime?  Now that I am on 25mg DHEA tablets everyday and producing my own oestrogen again, I will have the protection of my own hormones so this regime might work for me.

I am sure that are plenty of women who could really benefit from this regime.  Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[GuernseyGirl]

Hi ,
I've got a migraine at present which is probably why I got into a mess posting previously,
I was trying to reply to a post by Smarlo - hers is the post that comes out as my post. The bit I wrote never appeared ?!?

I was saying how fantastic I had felt since I started this regime about 2 months ago - apart from almost perminant Hemi-plegic migraine, with severe facial neuralgia 😞
I am so pleased with the calming down of my previously horrendous hot flushes, sweats and endless sleepless nights, but don't think I can live with these migraines. Any suggestions? Ideas?

[Mary G]

I thought that post sounded familiar!

Sorry to hear that you are plagued with migraines but I'm afraid that might be because of the Utrogestan.  As a fellow silent migraine sufferer, I can only go by my own personal experiences and there are women on here who thrive on Utrogestan and take it everyday but if you not one of them and can't take it, you can't take it, it's as simple as that. 

So it sounds to me like the Oestrogel is doing its stuff and relieving your symptoms but the Utrogestan is permanently in the background causing the migraines and undermining the good work the Oestrogel is doing, par for the course for women like us I'm afraid.

Your current regime is a brilliant choice for women who can easily tolerate Utrogestan and don't want a bleed but if it is giving you a permanent migraine then it might not be a good option for you.  Therefore, you could switch to a cyclical regime and take 100mg vaginally for 7 days each month (this is what I do but I stretch it to at least 5 weeks now) and see if that works out - you might just about be able to cope with that level of Utrogestan.   

My current regime is last chance saloon for me because I can't tolerate any form of synthetic progesterone and I can't take very much Utrogestan either so it's either that or a hysterectomy. 

Why not give the 100mg Utrogestan 7 day regime a try and see how it goes?

How I wish there was something better out there like a hormone free progesterone alternative. 

[GuernseyGirl]

Dear Mary,
Thanks for your advice, I'll give this 7 day/ 5 week regime a try, - but does it mean a 7 day migraine? Is it the price we have to pay? 
I thought it was all too good to be true, but know I am intolerant to progesterone as I couldn't tolerate a mirena coil...
Could you tell me more about the DHEA tablets, do I need to search another thread to find out about it?
Thanks

[Mary G]

GuernseyGirl, you certainly have nothing to lose by trying this regime so why not give it a go?  Hopefully it will not mean a 7 day migraine but obviously we are all different and it depends where your personal threshold is - the effects of Utrogestan are cumulative and symptoms kick in after 3 days in my case.  You may find that it works better if you concentrate the Utrogestan to 7 days rather than have a constant low dose in the background if you know what I mean.  I find that Utrogestan is far more effective and has fewer side effects when used vaginally so use it that way if you can and try to place it next to the cervix. 

If you do adopt this regime, it is worth having a uterine scan after a few months is make sure you are getting adequate clearance and thinning of the womb lining - I have been fine taking even less than this dose but again, we are all different so it is worth getting it checked out occasionally.  You can try the NHS or pay for it privately and it costs about £100.

Re DHEA tablets, it's definitely worth reading up on them.  They have certainly made a huge difference to me and my gynaecologist and Professor MacGregor (migraine specialist) approve of them and agree that I must be producing my own oestrogen again because my oestrogen blood levels are very high for someone using 2 pumps of Oestrogel.  More importantly, I feel better and they are keeping the migraines away so again, you could give them a try because what have you got to lose?  You can easily buy them online and they are not expensive.

It's not an exact science and there are no guarantees because we all react differently to medication but I hope that helps!

[Charlotte ...]

Just throwing my tuppence into his thread as I'm on utrogestan/oestrogel.
I haven't had any problems with the utrogestan. Feel great aside from lack of sleep which hasn't improved at all.

[clare663]

MaryG what are the DHEA tablets? What do they do? I have tried both continuous dose of utro and for 5 days and neither have suited me and Ive come off HRT altogether again. Felt great for the first 6-7 weeks and now flushes are back!!

[Mary G]

clare663, I'm sorry to hear that you have had to stop HRT because of the wretched Utrogestan.  Have you tried any other forms of progesterone?  Unfortunately for many women, progesterone is a necessary evil but the Achilles heel of HRT preparations because none of them seem to manifest themselves in the same way as our own progesterone - well they don't for me anyway.  I realise that there are lots of women who get on well with it but if you can't take it, what are you supposed to do? 

I came across DHEA tablets by accident while in a pharmacy in Gibraltar but I started taking them and realised that they stopped my migraines while on the Utrogestan phase of HRT.  My gynaecologist suggested I reduce to 10mg everyday because I started producing my own oestrogen again and she thought it was rather high but the migraines returned so I have now gone to back 25mg and they have stayed away so far.  I contacted my migraine specialist and she said "definitely stick with the 25mg dose" so that is what I intend to do.  I still have to go easy on the Utrogestan but this means I can struggle through and take the barest minimum. 

So the upshot of the whole thing is, DHEA is a type of steroid that helps you to produce your own hormones again and in my case, this seems to offer me protection against the ill-effects of Utrogestan - I was able to take artificial progesterone pre-menopause without getting migraines so the hope is that now I produce those baseline hormones again, the migraines will stay away.  I have also found that my periods are lighter while taking it. 

I can only give you my personal experience and there is no guarantee that it will be the same for everyone but you have nothing to lose by trying it and if it doesn't work out, you can simply stop taking it. 

It's not available over the counter in the UK but you can buy it online. 

One more thing, you should never take DHEA unless you are taking HRT or you have had a hysterectomy because it will cause the womb lining to build up. 

I hope that helps. 

[GuernseyGirl]

Not feeling great...
On day 6 of my 7 day Ultro cycle and had hemiplegic Migraine for 5 days now. Can't drive as it has taken out the right side of my body & stuggling to type.
Also severe joint pain from my EDS today, can hardly move, hasn't been this bad for ages (know EDS is progesterone sensitive)

SO I would like to try DHEA.
I don't suppose members who have had success with it are allowed to mention specific brand names, but from googling I have found out the quality and amount of DHEA  in each supplement varies greatly. Could somebody private message me with a brand name they have found reliable please? also they mention on the websites not to self medicate and to get a blood test to get your own levels read before commencing.
 I am still battling to get an appointment with the only gynaecologist on the island who is open to prescribing treatment which is considered unorthodox. if she does agree to see me I may have a 6-9 month wait...
I am feeling a bit desperate and would like to add the DHEA to my regime so a little additional help from members who have found it helpful would be greatly appreciated.
Thank t I am feeling a bit desperate and would like to add the DHEA to my regime so a little additional help from members who have found it helpful would be greatly appreciated
Thank you in advance ladies.

[Mary G]

GuernseyGirl, I'm so sorry to hear about your migraines, they sound very debilitating and must really get you down.  I am going to PM some DHEA brands to you because as you say, we are not supposed to name brands on here.  My favourite brand is actually manufactured in the UK for export only.

[Hurdity]

Hi GuernseyGirl - why do you want to take DHEA? Are you already on HRT - including oestrogen progesterone and tesosterone? If so all you need is to get the levels of the added hormones correctly. Although DHEA us a precursor steroid to oestrogen and testosterone, there is no guarantee which and if so how much it will convert to.

There is a Cochrane review on scientific studies looking into the efficacy of DHEA here:

Dehydroepiandrosterone for women in the peri- or postmenopausal phase

http://www.cochrane.org/CD011066/MENSTR_dehydroepiandrosterone-for-women-in-the-peri-or-postmenopausal-phase

Published 22 January 2015

These were the conclusions:

Authors' conclusions:
There is no evidence that DHEA improves quality of life but there is some evidence that it is associated with androgenic side effects. There is uncertainty whether DHEA decreases menopausal symptoms, but DHEA may slightly improve sexual function compared with placebo.

I think the studies were looking at DHEA in women who were not already taking HRT.

There are such limited data and especially about dose, long term effects etc that personally I would not want to use it at this point and particularly regaridng lack of standardisation. Dawncam ( I think it was her) posted recently that her specialist (private) gynae said that she did not need it because she was already taking oestrogen and testosterone and not to waste her money.

I would suggest you concentrate on getting the dosage right of your existing HRT and if you are not already taking testosterone - depending on your age and stage and symptoms - look into this.

Sorry to hear about your migraines - I get them too from time to time - but you still need to take some form of progesterone if you are also taking oestrogen. I don't know your history but you could take it vaginally ( after making sure your vaginal tissues are plumped up) to minimise side effects.

I hope you feel better soon.

Hurdity x



 

[Lanzalover]

Don't know what to do.

First three months of hrt on a conti basis oestrogel and utrogestan no spotting no bleeding just didn't like the way continuous utro made me feel.Also no no bleed during days 25 to 28 when no utro taken.

The following three months I used the same products on a seqi basis first bleed was horrendous very heavy, large clots and it felt like my insides were being ripped out in my own mind I decided that the continuos utro over the previous three months had not kept my womb lining thin and this was the result and decided to see how the following couple of months went.

The following couple months bleeds were not as bad still very heavy but not as painful and no big clots.
But I always start the bleed before taking all the course of utro so just just stop it,

Last bleed finished the Sunday before we came away so I had decided to go back to conti basis and then when back from holiday re think this whole hrt thing.

Then ten days into the conti I have started to bleed and this has turned into a period had a panic and have not used the oestrogel or utro since this bleed started but should I just carry on taking them as normal despite the bleeding.

Sorry for the the long post any advice would be helpful.

Lanzalover x

[Hurdity]

Hi Lanzalover

Don't panic!

Firstly are you post-menopause and how old are you? if you are post-menopause I would agree with you that the first bleeds were big because your lining had built up on conti prog. What doses are you and were you using for the prog? Cyclical should be 200 mg for 12 days per 28 ( or per month) but this is taken to be with medium dose oestrogen - it could well be not enough for higher oestrogen doses and too much for very low oestrogen doeses (once the settling in time has passed). Also what dose oestrogen?

Could you be peri-menopausal still and having a natural period with your own hormones breaking through? Also oral utro as you know is much less well absorbed in some women so could lead to fluctuating levels and thereby triggering a bleed when levels drop, if the lining is still thickened.

Yes I would carry on taking them for the time being - but what effect it has will depend on the reason for the bleeding. All the time you are taking the prog it is working on preventing the lining from building up. I am a bit hazy about what is actually happening structurally to the endometrium at the point of the bleed - ie as the lining comes away, does the new lining already start to build? If it does then it would defo make sense to continue with the prog - if you see what I mean?

Hurdity x