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Author Topic: utrogestan question  (Read 5662 times)

devonhil

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utrogestan question
« on: December 09, 2013, 11:49:26 AM »

Hello everyone

just a quick question for those of you taking utrogestan. I've noticed some discussion on taking it orally versus vaginally. Would you get a higher dose from the same amount vaginally as it's not being processed by the liver but is absorbed more directly into the bloodstream? I remember reading somewhere that with most things higher doses are needed when taken orally as the stomach acid destroys some of it (though I may be completely wrong about that)

Anyone that's tried both ways, have you noticed any different/better/worse effects from each method?

hil x
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Hurdity

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Re: utrogestan question
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 05:16:40 PM »

Hi devonhill

Less is needed when used vaginally for the reasons you give  - ie it goes straight to the uterus - called the uterus first pass effect. As far as I understand it is in fact absorbed by the digestive tract but then it is metabolised by the liver. Using it vaginally avoids the "liver first pass effect" whereby some of the progesterone absorbed never reaches the uterus.

There is research giving the levels of progesterone in the bloodstream after the different methods, and also the efficacy in protecting the endometrium - but I haven't got the papers to hand.

I think I explained recently on another post - that the licensed amount of utrogestan for cyclical HRT is 200 mg, but when used vaginally, the official instructions (translated from the French where vaginal use is licensed as an alternative to oral use) do not suggest that this amount be reduced - and I imagine this is to be on the safe side.

There is a paper somewhere which suggests that used vaginally, 100 mg every other day is sufficient to protect the endometrium from thickening due to oestrogen - but I think this is for post-menopausal oestrogen doses in which tend to be lower (for women past the average age of menopause).

All women of course will react differently. Some women using it vaginally are under private consultants, but others like myself just do it anyway. My doc was happy for me to use it vaginally but didn't prescribe it as such. You would need to be more vigilant re the lining and especially if you tinkering with the licensed doses.

There is a need for more trials on this so that more women can benefit from this method.

I have never taken it orally although there are  some who have and hopefully will be along soon.

Hurdity x

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oldsheep

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Re: utrogestan question
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 09:13:40 PM »

Oh the french do love putting their medicines up certain orifices!  ;D

I take 100 mg Utrogestan every night, orally. The reason for nightly is to help sleep. Not sure if it does at 100 mg. it did at 200 mg, but I couldn't tolerate that dose and bled much of the time. I discussed vaginal utrogestan at the meno clinic when I saw the consultant, but it doesn't have any sedative effect.
I'm not sure how precise the vaginal dose is. Hope you can find the info. I wonder if the pessaries are more expensive, being a bit " exotic"?
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andius

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Re: utrogestan question
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 03:13:22 AM »

 
In the US there are pessaries/suppositories.....used for fertility purposes mainly.

We also have prometrium which is progesterone in peanut oil in a gel capsule. I have taken 100mg orally in the past but the levels it gives me (steady state) are lower than docs usually want to protect endometrium with the estrogen I take and the 200mg is known to be more associated with a groggy sedated feeling.  It does get processed through liver and has metabolites which may also be active. Vaginally, as Hurdity said, 100mg will give higher levels to protect uterus and still  bypasses liver. As most of my symptoms are vaginal/urethral, I was taking vagifem and on a continuous regimen, so I never tried it vaginally.

That is why a lot of HRT here (US) includes progestin with combo pills and patches.  I have never used any combo patches  as the docs I was able to get to RX HRT all do bioidentical types. One young doc I went to gave me Femhrt which is ethinyl estradiol and norethisterone combo.  I gained 10 lbs, was depressed, and hurt all over (muscles/joints) on it for just 1 month!  I could never tolerate BCP's either.

Micronised progesterone is becoming more popular as compounded  sublingual drops , troches, and sublingual triturates. I got decent levels on both sublingual troches and triturates (which is what I use now 100mg SL). A triturate is a small pellet of powder that dissolves under the tongue...you try not to swallow as it get absorbed (5-10min) through lingual veins and gum vessels directly into blood stream without going through digestive tract first.

I think this is like vaginally, although it's at the opposite end ::), though it is a compounded RX. It makes me sleepy about 15 minutes after I take it and so I take it at bedtime.  I get ninety for 3 months...you can also bite them in half and take it twice a day if needed. I take it continuously.

Andius

« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 03:29:03 AM by andius »
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devonhil

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Re: utrogestan question
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 09:52:27 AM »

thanks for all the replies.

I didn't realise you could get micronised progesterone as sub-lingual drops. That sounds a good method for quick absorption. Has anyone tried it in this form?

hil
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Hurdity

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Re: utrogestan question
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 08:54:59 PM »

Oh the french do love putting their medicines up certain orifices!  ;D

 ;D  ;D

oldsheep - it does have a sedative effect on me when used vaginally - but wouldn't be as much as oral use. By the end of my 12 days I am in a bit of a progesterone induced fog and find it even more difficult to wake in the mornings than usual (I'm on third day at the moment so may become less coherent as the time goes on!)

Sublingual drops - not licensed or available in this country and would certainly not be recommended for endometrial protection. These are probably from the unregulated compounding pharmacies that the FDA in US disapproves of. Maybe some private practitioners in UK sell them but would charge a fortune - and do steer well clear of all this sort of thing (in UK) - not the same as private gynaes that are recommended on this site.

The doses for endometrial protection are derived through approved trials.

Hurdity x
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Cassie

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Re: utrogestan question
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 09:34:36 PM »

Funnily enough, the 100mg has the total opposite effect on me, insomnia and really silly dreams for the whole 12 days that I take it monthly :(
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andius

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Re: utrogestan question
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2013, 12:24:23 AM »

Wow!....that's interesting Cassie.  :o It shows how different we all are for sure!

Andius
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