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[oldsheep]

A year ago I was moved on to evorel 50 and utrogestan 100 (every night) from 200 Utrogestan which, to the consultant's disbelief ("it's supposed to stop bleeding!" ) caused constant heavy bleeds. I had an womb lining scan in June 2012 which was fine.
Since August '12 no bleeding at all. I haven't varied the patch or tablet dose.
The only new development is 2x weekly (at most cos I forget) Vagifem.

2 weeks ago I suddenly got swollen and sore breasts. This morning I have period pain and some bleeding. Of course my 6 monthly appointment was last Monday and I asked if I should have another scan and he said no, as there's been no bleeding. So now there is. I can't get an appointment at the meno clinic until December.

Would it be a good idea to push for a scan ASAP? I'm nearly 54 and have been on various types of HRT since October 2010.
So fed up as have had a much better summer health wise (sun helps!) and have been swimming in a heated outdoor pool 3-4x a week and loving it.

Sorry, am not online here much and feel bad about just popping back when the wheels come off.

[oldsheep]

thanks Stellajane. I'm 54. Started HRT on the conti synthetic one (the mare's urine! can't remember name) for 6 months in about Sept 2010. Then moved on to oestradiol valerate and utrogestan in 2011. Then on to Evorel 50 patches and utrogestan (200mcg, then a year ago 100mcg every night) in Aug 2012.

I had break through bleeds on the mare's urine stuff; and bled a lot on 200mcg utrogestan. Bleeding stopped altogether last August when moved on to 100mcg utrogestan.
So I had bleeds after starting HRT, quite regularly (not monthly) so no, I don't know when my periods stopped.
I know that before going on to HRT in 2010 my oestrogen levels were so low that the gynae joked that his were higher! I was very unwell with meno symptoms then, so my guess is that is when the actual meno kicked in.

I don't know how to organise the scan but am going to go and see the female GP. She's not too pro HRT and lectured me on the dangers of Vagifem (although I'm taking progesterone nightly?). But I hope she'll kick start how to organise a scan in the system.

One thing that's odd: this swollen boobs and now bleeding started very soon after I started a new pack of Evorel. As I assume the symptoms are from oestrogen, not progesterone, I wonder if somehow either the patch has slightly more oestrogen in it than before, or if for some odd reason I'm absorbing it more?
Has this happened to anyone else please?

thanks x

[Suzi Q]

Glad your getting thwe scan theres no reason why you cant have Vagifem
A whole year 2 weely is the equivalent to 2 HRT pills in a YEAR in your blood stream take and print off info on Vagifem
Can you just stop the HRT? Im just saying it sounds like its done more harm than good?

[oldsheep]

Yes, the progesterone argument is what the consultant said too. I'm just trying (failing) to link any change to the bleed (which isn't bad so far, but is there).
The only things that changed are the vagifem and the new batch of evorel.
Probably just my hormones changing and nothing to do with either, but you know how you think 'what caused that?'.

What does a private scan cost, do you know? I can see how reluctant they are to give me one at the meno clinic, plus it would take months as my next appointment is December and there's a long wait for scans.
My husband has BUPA at work but they don't pay for anything 'menopause' I don't think as think it's a natural part of ageing!

[Limpy]

I agree with Stellajane - I think your GP will act promptly to get the scan sorted out on the NHS, given you are having unexplained bleeding after a year.

[oldsheep]

Thanks x Hope so, although my instinct with her tells me she will try to take me off HRT.
I've been reading and it's confusing as either too much oestrogen or too much progesterone cause spotting or bleeding on continuous HRT it seems.
http://www.ehow.com/way_5637843_solution-bleeding-hormone-replacement-therapy.html

I'm seeing her tomorrow evening and hope she will sort a scan, as imagine that without it, it's all guesswork.
Hard to believe I'm oestrogen dominant but who knows.
I'm on 50 Evorel twice a week and nightly 100 mcg Utrogestan.

Thanks x

[Hurdity]

Hi oldsheep

Yes it is confusing - as you say you can't second guess why you are having bleeding without being investigated and since you haven't changed your systemic HRT then it should be investigated.

Yes they may say come off HRT before they will investigate you - that's what my doc said originally but I refused so am being investigated anyway. The point is, if there are any abnormalities eg thickened lining, polyps or fibroids - these can be diagnosed even while you are on HRT.

I agree the regime you are on should not lead to womb lining build up - but then we are not all text book cases are we? How long had it been since your previous last natural period before you went onto HRT in 2010?

I agree with the other posters. Go to your GP and you should be referred for a scan directly without going back to the meno clinic.

Hurdity  x

[oldsheep]

Many thanks Hurdity. I can't remember when my last natural period was, other than sometime first half of 2010.

Complication today and think it must be related to the sudden bleed and wearing of tampons - sharp pain when I pee. Especially the start and end.
Just wish I had more confidence in the GP.
Don't want antibiotics either. They tend not to do urinalysis here in London as the results take 3 weeks to come back.
I'm drinking a lot of water and with d mannose in. And no tampons unless the flow gets worse.

[oldsheep]

well let's hope I can get OH's BUPA to cover this. London prices for our local private hospital scan are £300 
NHS can push an appointment forward for me but it's a much longer wait for the scan. August is holiday month too.
Seeing my GP this evening. Just wish she was someone I could really trust. Feeling pretty run down.

[oldsheep]

I saw my GP today. She's accelerated the scan and BUPA will cover it. She said the wait on NHS is long so let's take advantage of OH's insurance.
I'm having it tomorrow so all is happening quickly. I'm nervous (as usual).

[Limpy]

Glad it's been sorted

Please try not to worry 

[oldsheep]

I get so fussed and nervous.  I ate about 10 gummy bear (kids') rescue remedy sweeties 
She didnt tell me much but said the lining was under 5 so ok, and could see both ovaries, also ok, so I'm relieved. So it's "just hormones" I suppose. The meno clinic wanted to up my oestrogen to 75mg but not sure they will now.
They rang me from the hospital and fitted me into next Wednesday's clinic so am very impressed with Kings.
Thanks for the support x

[oldsheep]

I'm massively bloated, couldn't even fit properly into my dress tonight. Tummy and boobs. Awful.
Googled and various sites say too much oestrogen (unlikely, given my other symptoms) and maybe too much progesterone (who knows).
Either way, how do you rebalance an imbalance? Everything was going so well until 10 days ago.
I hate feeling so huge and slug like.

[oldsheep]

Scan result: ovaries ok and 3mm endometrium but says fibrotic changes noted in the subendometrial region.
I have a clinic appointment tomorrow so hopefully they'll explain and I hope nothing to go through because of this.

[cc1405]

Hi, I know this is an old thread and there might be a new one.

I'm having exactly the same issue with the bleeding on Everol 50 and Utrogestan 100 continuous. Am being sent for a scan. I think I can feel it's just hormonal but was wondering what your outcome was.