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[monsterfromid]

Hi everyone, Just wondered if anyone else has had the experience of their hormonal symptoms being mistaken for psychiatric disorders. My current psychiatrist (and I intend to get a second opinion!) is adamant that I have Mixed State Bipolar Disorder. Two years ago I saw him presenting with symptoms of severe anxiety and he trotted out the Bipolar theory. Fortunately I'd educated myself and was convinced that the anxiety was the result of fluctuating hormones. A blood test proved this belief to be correct, I went on HRT and felt 90% better. (He didn't believe me when I told him I'd been having night sweats and flushing and put those down purely to anxiety) Fast forward 2 yrs and unfortunately I lapse into a depression. This time I'm desperate and my resistance is low. I'm sent to see the same psychiatrist who diagnoses Agitated Depression but keeps mentioning Bipolar Disorder. My first depressive episode was back in 94. It was a mixed or agitated depression. I recovered. Years would go by when I was perfectly stable. Then the depression would pop up again. Always Unipolar. But this year I have the same type of anxiety as two years ago AND depression AND I spent a little too much money shopping in a misguided attempt to cheer myself up. He latches on to this triumphantly. I MUST be Bipolar as he'd always suspected. Bear in mind that my only symptoms are anxiety, depression and one ill advised shopping trip. No grandiosity. No pressured speech. No previous patterns of manic behaviour. He happily writes a prescription for Lithium. Six weeks later my face is covered in psoriasis, my stools are black, I can barely think coherently, my depression is worse and I've developed panic disorder, shaking and trembling so violently I look like a World War 1 sufferer of shell shock. Any thoughts?

[Smokey]

Hi monsterfrimid,

I just wanted to say hi, I unfortunately don't know anything about bipolar however I can tell you that I'm in peri meno and did have some horrendous feelings and thought I was going out of my mind, to the extent that I wouldn't leave the house unless I was with my husband, Iwas scared of everything, but couldn't say why? At one stage I even thought someone was in the house watching me very creepy!

I am on HRT and all these feelings went, hormones are very powerful and I think a lot of doctors under estimate the feelings they can cause.

Are you on HRT or have you considered it?

I would suggest speaking to your doctor about the meds your on it maybe that these don't actually suit you whether it's Biopolar or not, but what ever you do don't just suddenly stop taking them as this can in turn make you feel ill! They may have to be reduced gradually.

I hope this may help you,remember your not alone someone will always be here to listen.

[westie]

Gosh you poor thing! I have no experience iof your symptoms ( although i have plenty others!)so probably can't offer anything useful, only to say I do think the medical profession are too quick to ' label' things sometimes and as you say your symptoms are relatively mild- think we've all had the odd ill advised shopping trip on account of hormones lol!

I do feel for you feeling so rough though and hopefully someone will be along to offer some words of advice.

Sending you big hugs xxx

[rosie c]

 I too dont know anything about bi polar.... but had a friend who was diagnosed with it.... and she then found out she had an under active thyroid. when she had the right meds, she made a remarkable recovery,,,, no more " episodes" ! A tad scary.!!!!  I had a diagnosis of fibromyalgia and the rheumotologist that I was referred to said she felt I should see a psychiatrist because I was so low. Thank god I didnt go down that route!! I was low and depressed because of the pain and my bloody hormones. please get a second opinion. XXXX

[Limpy]

Sorry, I don't know anything about bi polar either.

Speak to somebody else - Your GP may be a reasonable place to start.
If you don't get sense there see another GP, whoever prescribed your HRT might be a good bet.
This psychiatrist sounds like a menace - tell your GP or somebody.

It may help to write down what you want to say before the appointment with the GP.
I always get flustered when I have a lot to say to the GP, even with ordinary things, then forget what I went to say!
Could anybody go with you to take notes?

[Joyce]

I know nothing of bipolar. However, I was diagnosed with anxiety attacks a few years back. Referred to psychiatrist etc, even went for psychiatric counselling. Not one person even thought about hormones, least of all me. I was having several deja vu moments per day which totally floored me, leaving me feeling wiped out. It wasn't until I joined this forum that I worked out that I had probably been having hormone fluctuations.

I kept a diary of my episodes. Psychiatric nurse and consultants delved into my past and reckoned I'd never come to terms with my father dying when I was 7! Think they were just looking for something to blame. I was in my early 50's by this time.

The menopause can affect us all very differently. My mum couldn't leave the house. Others sail through.

By the way a lot of us probably go shopping to cheer ourselves up. Heck I know I do, end up binning the stuff further down their line wondering why on earth I'd bought the thing in the first place.

I think you need another opinion. Is that at all possible?

[Clovie]

Monsterfromid - I am angry and upset reading this on your behalf!
 Poor you 

Treatment like this is enough to stop people seeking help when they are feeling down
I really feel for you.

Please please get a second opinion.

[nelliedee]

Sorry to read your experiences. i was diagnosed with severe anxiety a year ago and given ad's which increased my anxiety and landed me in a & e. a year on and i find i was miss diagnosed. I feel hormones can and do cause severe anxiety. I have been depressed twice in my life, once with postnatel depression and last year whilst in perimeno.  A lady I know ended up being sectioned and after a while it was discovered it was low progesterone at the root. She went on to write a book and is now a therapist. If you like reading heres the link
 Beating Stress, Anxiety And Depression: Groundbreaking ways to help you feel better by Janet Stephenson and Professor Jane Plant
I have a friend who is bipolar and she is managing now without meds and feels better.
I hope you get some answers soon xx

[monsterfromid]

Thanks for all the wonderful, supportive messages. Smokey, I am on HRT and according to the blood test results from a few months ago, my estrogen level is high. God knows what the picture is now though. My psychiatrist would have put you on anti-psychotics tout sweet for your anxiety. That's what he prescribed me until I refused to take them and got my hormones sorted out. At present I'm on a ridiculous cocktail of drugs that I don't think is helping. Seeing P doc this morning. Wish me luck!

[Firewalker50]

Hi Monserfromid

I, too, felt upset when I read your post.   Why are some doctors keen to prove their own theories and fit you into a box.  What experience does he have medically to consider fluctuating hormones?   You know your own body instinctively and were right before - trust yourself now.

It could be cyclical depression, which comes and goes.
It could be anxiety from menopause (or anything else).

You say your oestrogen levels are high - are you oestrogen dominant, in which case you may need progesterone supplement for a while).   Everyone's Mum also mentioned that.
If your progesterone levels are low, how are your adrenals?   They are both linked.  One needs the other and your body takes from each to support its needs.

It may be the drugs you are on now causing side effects. 

Have you considered a Homeopathic hospital?  (I don't know where you live and if thee is one nearby - there is a very successful one in Glasgow).
Or a qualified Herbalist?

Fun exercise or yoga can help tremendously with depression and has been proved to be as effective and often more so than ADs.  (research proved)

Just because you have a number of symptoms does not mean they are all related or connected.
So far, it is a collection of symptoms or data.   

I like the idea of the book by Everyone's Mum.   You seem well connected to your body and wanting to understand it.  Perhaps the book will give you another dimension. 

Keep strong.

Fx

[Hurdity]

Hi monsterfromid

 

Sorry to hear about your problems and with the psychiatrist.

You might be interested in what Prof John Studd (a top gynaecologist who has done loads of research) has to say about hormones, depression, bi-polar, pms, and PND.

Here is the link to the bi-polar page, and if you look down the menu on the left you will see links to all the other issues.

http://www.studd.co.uk/pmsbipolar.php

You are not likely to have too much oestrogen that would interfere with your well-being - but of course you need sufficient progesterone to ensure your womb-lining does not thicken. Lack of progesterone will not intrinsically affect your well-being to such an extent as to cause depression, otherwise most women who have had a hysterectomy and who are on oestrogen only HRT would have similar issues - as all such women have excess oestrogen, and no progesterone.

Regarding progesterone - many women suffer symtpoms throughout life from either progesterone itself giving rise to severe pms (including depression) for the second half of the menstural cycle - progesterone intolerance, or from the rapid fall in progesterone that occurs just before the period is due - giving the classic pmt symtpms of headache, anxiety,  irritiability, low mood, tension etc. These fluctuations increase during the peri-menopause therefore increasing any such symptoms.

Because if this, some women are given progesterone (or the mini-pill) to prevent the fluctuations - but of course this will only work if progesterone itself is not the problem!

By the way what HRT do you use and are you still having a cycle? Some synthetic progestogens can cause serious side effects. Some women have also suffered depression from using the Premarin/Prempak HRT (equine oestrogens).

I agree with Firewalker that any exercise you can take can only be of benefit healthwise, even if hormones are the root cause.

I wish you well in sorting out all of this and extricating yourself from your blinkered psychiatrst, and the medications you are on which do not seem to be helping.

Hurdity x

[Soupdragon]

I'd read that it's disappointing common to be labelled (and treated) for bi-polar when the culprit is actually menopause/pms/pmdd, especially in the US where exposure to psychiatrists is more readily available. (That old cliche - surgeons will want to slice you up versus medics who'll take the drug approach (think there was an episode of Scrubs that dealt with this  ) - and I'm guessing it extends to shrinks whereas if you saw an endocrinologist....... )

Having said that, hormonal fluctuation can exacerbate bipolar symptoms so it'd be important you don't dismiss the idea completely.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/295382-overview#a1 

From personal experience - in the years following my surgical menopause, but before I got my hormones balanced, my behaviour and mood swings were very similar to those of someone with rapid-cycling bipolar (with hindsight I realise my brain is pretty sensitive to hormonal fluctuation - all those pms out-of-control rage incidents now make sense  !! ).

[monsterfromid]

Thank you all so much for all that excellent info! I'll delve into it this aft. I was fitted with a Mirena Coil about 2 and a half years ago to help control excessive bleeding (I have fibroids). Everyone seemed to be pushing for hysterectomy but I refused. Two years ago when I had the anxiety and my P doc wanted to treat it with anti-psychotics, I went to see someone at the Meno Clinic and she was of the opinion I was suffering from severe PMS and would benefit from hormone replacement. It worked like a charm. It wasn't perfect, but I'd say there was a 90% improvement in symptoms. At the moment I've been bleeding almost continuously for two months and have an apt at the Meno Clinic in early June. It can't come fast enough as far as I'm concerned.

[Hurdity]

Hi again monsterfromid

Well you have mentioned having the Mirena - have you considered that this could be contributing to your problems?

Depression is one of the listed side effects of Mirena

Psychiatric disorders - Depressed mood, Nervousness, Decreased libido are listed as common side effects in the Summary of Product Charatceristics (link below)

http://www.medicines.ie/medicine/2707/SPC/Mirena+52mg+Intrauterine+Delivery+System/

In addition the instructions in Canada say the following:

Emotional problems: Women with a history of emotional disturbances may be more likely to have a recurrence while using the levonorgestrel device.

http://chealth.canoe.ca/drug_info_details.asp?brand_name_id=2059&page_no=2

The thing about Mirena of course is that it contains a synthetic progestogen - levonorgestrel - whose only function is to keep the womb lining thin. Unfortunately some is absorbed systemically (ie into your body) and can cause negative side effects, and I have read, gives none of the benefits that bio-identical progesterone would have elsewhere in the body.

In your position I would be wanting to minimise the artificial and synthetic substances in your system.

I understand you had it inserted to control excessive bleeding - but there is also the endometrial ablation, an operation that removes most of the womb lining, an alternative to hysterectomy but more permanent I understand than D&C.  If it isn't controlling the bleeding either then it does look like something else is needed anyway.

Then at least you would be able to take a bio-identical progesterone (Utrogestan) which may agree with you better (unless you are very highly progesterone intolerant).

I realise this is away from the direct topic of bi-polar but really trying to look at all possibilities so that even if you do have another imbalance somewhere - you will know it is not to do with your HRT!

Hope this helps and hope it goes well at the meno clinic....

Hurdity x

[nelliedee]

There could even be a link there with your coil as you had it fitted just prior to having anxiety. Exercise is absolutely fantastic for alleviating anxiety, insomnia ect, it works. When anxiety hit me it reduced me to being someone i didnt recognise but after reading the book i mentioned earlier, it mentioned hormones and in turn i found this site and slowly I realised that i had probably been in peri meno for a few years. No one else had ever mention menopause to me. Because I couldnt take hrt or ad's I had to find other ways to get my life back on track and I did that by exercising, dietry changes and some lifestyle changes whereby I no longer take on the work of a donkey. My anxiety was being triggered by my hormones and at the time I never knew my hormones where to blame and so I slowly became quite depressed with the way I felt, I never felt happy. GP gave me AD'S and they spiralled my anxiety and I truly felt I was going mad. A year on and after taking lots of good advice on this site I am so much better. This is called the change and I agree it is a time for change, accepting it and being so very kind to yourself. I hope things simmer down for you xx