Menopause Discussion > Alternative Therapies

Serenity bio identical hormone cream!!

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TheDuchess:
Hi again
Is it possible that your drs are not explaining clearly what's been happening?
As far as I know- and someone may pop along to put me right!- bleeding without using Utrogestan post menopause is not considered a period- it's breakthrough bleeding.

Again, my understanding is that the breakdown of the endometrium which results in a bleed can only happen either with progesterone / synthetic progestogens OR  breakthrough bleeding. My understanding is that when we use progesterone / progestogen, it has an effect on the endometrium: it changes the lining from a proliferative phase into a secretory phase where it 'halts' the build up of the lining. When progesterone is no longer being produced (as in a natural cycle or an HRT cycle mimicking this) then the endometrium breaks down and there is a bleed.

I agree with what you have said that your endometrium must be very sensitive to the effects of oestrogen, which is why it's even more important that you find something to offset it.

Has your dr suggested you use Utrogestan vaginally? This is not licensed as such in the UK but many women on here (from my reading) are doing this. If you are seeing a consultant privately (which I assume you are to have regular scans and treatment that is not mainstream) have they suggested this?

Up thread you implied that you were using another sort of progesterone cream that was being prescribed by a dr. Presumably this is in a higher concentration than Serenity because, as someone has already posted, the amount of active ingredient in Serenity does not give endometrial protection.

It might seem a bit illogical to say try 200mgs b of Utrogestan - I can only say what works for me and what doesn't! I get migraines on 100mgs and on 200mgs I don't feel I'm taking anything. If you had no symptoms during your own natural cycles when progesterone would be much higher, it might be worth a try?

I hope you get on okay and find something that helps!

Hurdity:
Hi again MaryG - you found the thread! Interestingly this discussion now belongs more in the "All Things Menopause" section  ::). Hey Ho!

As TheDuchess explains the bleeding is still breakthrough bleeding - oestrogen breakthrough bleeding - if you have no progesterone. if there is a lot of it (blood)then this would be of some concern. Sorry I can't remember if you've had any scans or biopsies.

Prof Studd's standard prescription is for monthly use and the 7 day course of utrogestan is the minimum he would recommend - and only under supervision with regular scans. For another doctor to contemplate less than this I would suggest is not advisable but I can understand your dilemma!. As I said right at the beginning and also re-iterated by TheDuchess you will not get enough progesterone from the proprietary (commercial) prog cream to oppose the oesrtrogen and especially with such a high dose of oestrogen.

There are private companies that produce higher dose prog creams I understand but the doses are very variable because not licensed. Also even if they were stonger, they are still transdermal and therefore could have systemic effects since they go into the bloodstream before going to the uterus ( even though avoiding the liver). As Duchess suggested and as I have used for several years - vaginal  Utrogestan (also not licensed in UK but recommended by privtae gynaes and some NHS docs) - will go stright to the uterus with far fewer systemic effects and personally I would try this before using the cream.

I also would ask for a scan if you haven't had one already.

Wishing you well :)

Hurdity x

Hurdity:
skkb?  ??? Sorry we've taken over your thread!

Back to your original post - wondering what you would want to use it for at this point?

Hurdity x

Mary G:
Hurdity, yes I do have regular untrasound scans and I had one recently after this happened and all is OK and the gynaecologist, not Studd, said that I don't have any build up or fybroids or anything else.  I also told Dr. Currie about it when I wrote to her telling her about my severe progesterone intolerance. 

I have used the Utrogestan vaginally but even one 100mg capsule gives me a migraine the next day. 

I think the next step has to be a hysterectomy, then I don't have to worry about taking any more progesterone.  I'll go and have another scan next week anyway.

Hurdity:
Hi Mary G - good that you're having scans and the gyane said there is no build-up - as a matter of interest what was the thickness of your lining last time it was measured? What did Dr Currie advise in your consultation?

Going back to the cream - is it the commercial S brand as in the title of this thread or is it actually a higher dose cream? I know in US and in Oz too there are private practitioners who produce higher dose creams but in this case they would still be likely to give side effects I would have thought - because they need to be strong enough to oppose the oestrogen.Even so I would be concerned about using this for any length of time because it really won't provide enough progesterone to protect your womb in the same way as Utrogestan.

Personally I would try at least to continue with 100 mg Utrogestan used vaginally once a month if you can as per Prof Studd's guidance rather than risk any endometrial build-up. I can't imagine a reputable private gynae recommending the use of prog cream in this way ( at least not the commercial ones).

As well as the info on this site about not using it this way there is also this:

Caution for Women on Hormone Replacement Therapy

Some women who use combined HRT (oestrogen + progesterone) substitute progesterone creams for the progestogen component of their HRT. This can increase the risk of cancer in the uterine lining (endometrium), because not enough progesterone is absorbed through the skin from these creams. A study published in The Lancet found that progesterone creams applied to the skin don't increase the amount of progesterone levels in the blood to any significant degree and do not protect the endometrium.

http://www.heartspring.net/progesterone_cream.html

I'm not trying to be a killjoy but wouldn't want other women reading this to think it's OK to use this prog cream (as an alternative to the other progestogens) to protect the womb from oestrogen as part of HRT. Sounds like you might be a candidate for a hysterectomy although I'm sure the decision could not be taken lightly due to other health problems further down the line.

Good luck anyway  :)

Hurdity x

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