Menopause Discussion > Alternative Therapies
Serenity bio identical hormone cream!!
Mary G:
Hurdity, I am rather an odd case. I am 9 years post menopause and taking 3 pumps of oestrogen gel every day which gives me periods without the use of progesterone. It is very unusual I know, and no doctor has ever been able to explain it. If I don't use the gel or any HRT, I don't get periods at all but the oestrogen gel seems to bring them on. I have regular scans and the lining is all normal. I tried to go for the longer cycle of HRT but never got beyond 5 weeks before having a period WITHOUT taking any progesterone. It seems that I shed naturally for some reason. The reason I want to take progesterone is (a) to make sure the lining is well and truly shed and (b) without it, I get a period that lasts for two weeks but with the same volume of blood.
It's all a bit of a mystery but apparently some women shed naturally and without progesterone once the lining builds up, nobody knows why. Because of my severe intolerance to progesterone (my body is clearly telling me it doesn't like this stuff) I thought it might be worth a try with the natural progesterone cream that I can take is much lower doses. I will let you know how it if works and whether or not I can tolerate it. If not, the next step is a hysterectomy.
TheDuchess:
Hi there mary
I felt really concerned when I read this. This is not by the way the same as Serenity- I assume? This is prescribed by a gynaecologist?
Normally, bleeding outside of a controlled cycle (using progestogens) in someone 9 years post meno would be investigated fully - it could be down to hyperplasia.
Are you sure you are post meno for a start?
Have you had a scan recently?
What is the measurement of the lining?
A hysteroscopy?
Have you tried the Mirena with the gel
Three pumps is more than the normal dose, so are you sure you need that much? Could you be using too much and it's making the lining build up too much?
Sorry for all the questions!!!
You're not having periods, you're having breakthrough bleeding.
You won't have periods if you are 9 years post meno (does that make you about 60 or did you have an early meno?)
The reason that someone post meno would bleed as you are when using oestrogen is because the lining is growing too thick under the influence of oestrogen.
If this continues, my understanding is that hyperplasia could develop, or exist already.
Are you being treated by a gynaecologist and is the one prescribing the progesterone for you now the same one who's giving you the gel?
If you have only had a phone consultation does your dr intend to see you in person to discuss this?
Sorry for all the questions but I use gel and I feel very worried for you if you're having 2 weeks of bleeding, 9 years post meno, if you don't use any progestogens.
Mary G:
Duchess, yes, I do have regular ultrasound scans and and gynaecologist prescribes the oestrogen gel. This is not breakthrough bleeding, it's the real thing and very regular like a periods, I don't bleed between periods, don't have fybroids of any other underlying problems, all checked thoroughly and no build up in the lining.
It is a mystery and no doctor seems to know why I get periods naturally although one said I must have good womb receptors. I do take progesterone (Utrogestan) which brings on a period which last about 6 days. It tried to go for a longer cycle but can't make it that long, I always start a period without the progesterone which, as I said, is the same volume of blood but lasts for two weeks instead of the usual 6 days then stops completely until the next time. I never bleed between periods.
I am 54 and had an early menopause and never have any bleeding if I don't take HRT. The gynaecologist does not prescribe natural progesterone cream but said why not give it a try - I went to another doctor to get it. I am severely intolerant to all types of artificial progesterone including Utrogestan and the Mirena coil, they give me silent migraines which consist of disturbed vision without headache.
Leading expert Professor Studd originally prescribed three pumps of oestrogen gel plus 7 days of Urogestan 100mg per month, it is his bog standard prescription for all women who are progesterone intolerant. I am trying to substitute the Utrogestan with the natural progesterone cream and this new doctor said it is worth a try. If all else fails, I will have to have a hysterectomy, this is last chance saloon.
I did have an "off the record" conversation with the gynaecologist (not Professor Studd) who said that once size does not fit all but they are not supposed to say so. All women do not need a large amount of progesterone while on HRT but doctors have to tow the party line. Some (like me) can shed the lining by using much less whereas some women may need much more (some women cannot provoke a period by taking 200mg of Utrogestan for 7 days and that is a much bigger problem than mine), it depends on the individual but they will never say this on record.
TheDuchess:
Mary- I'd got my wires crossed,
You ARE using utrogestan?! When you wrote this-
"I am 9 years post menopause and taking 3 pumps of oestrogen gel every day which gives me periods without the use of progesterone" I thought you meant that you were having bleeds even when not using progesterone which is why I said it was breakthrough bleeding. Apologies!
Yes, if you are on a regular regime of 6 days Utrogestan you will get a regular bleed as you are mimicking a cycle. Maybe the 3 pumps of gel are giving you too much build up and that is why you are getting a bleed if you try to go for a longer cycle.
How would you feel about reducing your gel- the normal dose is 2 pumps and some women use 1 or 1.5 pumps. If you did maybe tried this - dropping back to 2 pumps for a few weeks- then 1 pump - and seeing if your symptoms got any worse, you might be able to go onto a longer cycle- maybe every 8 weeks.
You might find - don't know if you have experimented- that 200mgs of Utro doesn't give you a migraine. I get a migraine on 100mgs because the level falls too much and that starts the migraine.
Mary G:
Sorry Duchess, I know it's confusing! Yes, I do use Utrogestan (which I am going to try and replace with the natural progesterone cream) but have tried to go for the long (3 month) cycle HRT several times and not made it - I get a period bang on time without using the Utrogestan while trying to go for the longer cycle. Last time, I tried scale it back and go for a six week cycle and yet again, I didn't make it and got a period again which, as I said, was the same volume of blood but because of the low progesterone levels, lasted 14 days instead of the usual 6 days - believe me, it was the real deal and not breakthrough bleeding! That is what I meant when I said that I get periods without using any progesterone.
I tried two pumps of oestrogen gel but didn't feel very good so I reverted to 3 pumps, which is what Professor Studd recommends, and felt completely normal again.
Even one 100mg capsule of Utrogestan sets off a migraine so I would not want to risk 200mg. I once tried Norethisterone 2.5mg and had 5 silent migraine attacks in one day, 4 the next and the 1 the following day, this is the dreadful effect it has on me and I simply cannot function while taking this stuff. The Utrogestan does not affect me as badly, probably because it is bio identical, but nonetheless, I want to find an alternative hence the trial run on Serinity.
Interestingly, I never had any migraines while I was still producing adequate quantities of my own progesterone.
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